Worldvision makes changes...

[N1ghtBreak3r]

Just read this article, very interesting. Thoughts?

http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/201 ... riage.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[ccgr]

I can see why they did it but don't agree with it. Obviously it goes against the Bible's views. Another problem is that most states don't recognize homosexual marriages. What about them?

[ArcticFox]

It always makes me nervous when people cite "Christian unity" as a justification. It's like we're supposed to believe that those who are sticking to Biblical principles are the ones causing schisms.

Frankly I think, in this case, it has more to do with covering their backsides against lawsuits.

[ChickenSoup]

I'm having a semi-debate with someone with this IRL. My stance is that I'm not surprised that someone else has a differing viewpoint than fundamentalist conservative Christianity and I'll accept it as a difference of opinion.

...his comment was that World Vision is "spiraling into the pit," is now doomed by God for its actions, and that Paul ordered willful sinners to be cast out ("do not even eat with them," according to the verse). I asked him about why his opinion was free of criticism. "It's not my opinion, it's Scripture." Well, that shut the door on any intelligent discussion. I... hate Sunday-school answers o_o

I didn't point out his gluttony and laziness as factors of a Plankeye complex (with the acknowledgment that I have a lot of problems myself, as do we all), but I digress.

[ArchAngel]

Good for them, but restricting it to states with same sex marriage is an odd cop out. It does detract from the spirit of the change. That part is disappointing.

It always makes me nervous when people cite "Christian unity" as a justification. It's like we're supposed to believe that those who are sticking to Biblical principles are the ones causing schisms.

Now that we started the apocalypse, perhaps now is a good time to disagree.
Consider this: Not all Christians interpret the bible the same way and some find that homosexuality isn't wrong. I've already cited Justin Lee's (?) essay on more than one occasion and whether or not you agree, he does make a compelling point. Just enough to show that not everybody thinks that way.
Now, as all people are welcome to their own beliefs, you are welcome to believe in the biblical principles you interpret.
But now comes the question of unity, historically a major issue with the Christian church. If one side is pushing the other away, keeping them from employment or out of their organizations, they are most unequivocally causing schisms. You can believe whatever principles you want, but start separating people up, then yes, the latter causes the schism. By definition. I'm not even addressing whether or not it's warranted.

Frankly I think, in this case, it has more to do with covering their backsides against lawsuits.

Well, there goes that disagreement: This is very likely, considering the stipulation about states with same-sex marriage. So, I might have to retract my initial statement. But it's way up there and I already backspaced enough.

[ChickenSoup]

My most recent thoughts (via a facebook message to the mentioned friend). Another guy he knows jumped in and complained about how the children helped by World Vision are now set back by these actions.

Will the blameless and truly repentant (of every last sinful act, including the "relatively socially accepted"--gluttony, laziness, etc.--with all pride truly set aside) among us please step forward? I'm willing to admit that I have enough of my own problems that I'm not in a position to cast out others. I'd have, for lack of a better word, a Plankeye complex. In any case, I'm not going to accept a doctrine because I just should and that's the end of it. Entire denominations are in the middle of a schism over this issue regarding context and interpretation of even the verses you bring up, and I'm not going to pretend that they're all idiots who don't know how to read (or that only right-wing fundamental conservative Christians have all the answers). An attitude of "you don't question this, and if you disagree, you're hellbound" is contrary to any true formation of a genuine personal faith. If you're going to tout Christian authority, you can't use Ethos without Logos, and all I've ever seen is "because Jesus, now stop questioning" (by the way--still reading through the links you sent. Trying to do this while writing a take-home exam for Friday). I'm a scientist--I'm not going to just accept a single interpretation, especially given the controversy. I feel no burdening from the Holy Spirit when I ponder upon this stuff and reexamine my own beliefs, and until I get my own faith issues worked out, I'm going to err on the side of grace.

Also, [another person in the discussion]--how exactly are those who are helped via the charity "set back"? Is the help/money they received now tainted? Wouldn't it also be tainted before now if there were also people who openly sinned in any other conceivable way? Are the helped individuals also doomed now or something?

If you start selecting for gays, you'd better make a list of every potential sin via a questionnaire and tossing out anyone who has a mark against them. You'd have no volunteer base, I guarantee it. Uninjured/nondisabled people who don't exercise? Body's a temple--sloth! laziness! You're out. Can't help but talk about others when they're not around? Whoops, gossip/slander. You're out. Take an absurd number of selfies during every bathroom visit? Vanity--you're out. Selecting for sexual habits (because, IIRC, they still don't allow fornication) puts unusual emphasis on a single category of sin and overlooks the rest. However, as it turns out, everyone has a lot of problems. Does that mean they are of no use to God?

I'm not even necessarily some kind of active proponent of gays, but utilizing one trait to define an entire demographic dehumanizes them. Honestly, my biggest complaint about World Vision is that they really only appear to be covering their butts from lawsuits--they seem to only allow married gay couples to work for them in states that have legalized gay marriage. Christian unity my eye.

And... that's all I really have to say about that.

[ArchAngel]

Well put.

What do you think makes it so hard for people to distinguish between the freedom to openly hold beliefs and requiring others to conform to your beliefs.
It seems like there is always someone complaining that their religious freedom is being infringed on when they don't get special treatment from the government, or that as soon as someone says they don't think homosexuality is right or whatever, they are "pushing their beliefs on others."
Why is this so difficult?

[ChickenSoup]

He wasn't arguing so much that his freedom was being impinged upon, just that World Vision "is further descending into the pit."


I have divorced myself from much of Christianity. I am so weary of intellectual stagnation and not being allowed to question anything.

[ArchAngel]

I was speaking more generally. You wrapped things up pretty nicely there.

Now, I'm not going to try seduce you with the warm rational, freedom hug of Atheism... just saying it's there for you. Just playing.

It can be a lonely road being an independent thinker, but it's worth it, and living my the convictions of your mind is more than words can say.

[ChickenSoup]

Haha well the sad part is that atheists have always been way more accepting of my curiosity. I have few scientifically literate Christian friends, so it's hard to talk excitedly about, say, Cosmos without cringing at responses.

[ArchAngel]

Sometimes it's just hard to find people to get excited about science.

Like this discovery on light polarized by gravitional waves right after the big bang. MIND/UNIVERSE = BLOWN.

Us, the geeks, must stick together.

[ChickenSoup]

Yesssssss

[Deepfreeze32]

I asked him about why his opinion was free of criticism. "It's not my opinion, it's Scripture." Well, that shut the door on any intelligent discussion. I... hate Sunday-school answers o_o

I have divorced myself from much of Christianity. I am so weary of intellectual stagnation and not being allowed to question anything.

This right here is a major factor in why I've decided I'm probably going to cut ties with my family after graduation. My parents are such a mind-boggling case: My dad is a brilliant computer engineer, but is perhaps one of the most prejudiced, closed-minded people I've ever met. He claims that all science is part of a grand conspiracy to remove God from our country, and he supports the Tea Party. He apparently thinks members of the LGBT community are undeserving our love (He forced our family to leave the church we were going to because the pastor said "we should love on Gay people even if we disagree with them"). He also responded to the BSA's decision to allow Gay youth by pulling my brothers out of scouts and claiming "The next thing you know, they'll let girls who think they're boys join".

Then there's the years of emotional and verbal abuse, some of which continues in a subdued form to this very day. Have an issue with a sibling? Doesn't matter what it is, if you said anything negative to the younger sibling, you are automatically at fault. I teased my youngest brother for not knowing what an address bar was, and my dad launches into a tirade about how I'm "Just a dumb liberal college kid who will change his mind when he makes money. And he runs from his problems instead of facing them". The last bit is based on the fact that I hate Texas on so many levels (I don't much care for the people, the climate, or the politics).

I wish I was kidding...


Wow, I really ranted there and went off topic. Sorry.

[ArchAngel]

That's rough. I know that issues like that with fathers can run deep into one's psyche. It's not easy to grow past. Some mindsets just build up a lot of poison through the years, it's sad. It can't be easy to live like that.

Some distance might be good; hope things get better in time.

[ChickenSoup]

I asked him about why his opinion was free of criticism. "It's not my opinion, it's Scripture." Well, that shut the door on any intelligent discussion. I... hate Sunday-school answers o_o

I have divorced myself from much of Christianity. I am so weary of intellectual stagnation and not being allowed to question anything.

This right here is a major factor in why I've decided I'm probably going to cut ties with my family after graduation. My parents are such a mind-boggling case: My dad is a brilliant computer engineer, but is perhaps one of the most prejudiced, closed-minded people I've ever met. He claims that all science is part of a grand conspiracy to remove God from our country, and he supports the Tea Party. He apparently thinks members of the LGBT community are undeserving our love (He forced our family to leave the church we were going to because the pastor said "we should love on Gay people even if we disagree with them"). He also responded to the BSA's decision to allow Gay youth by pulling my brothers out of scouts and claiming "The next thing you know, they'll let girls who think they're boys join".

Then there's the years of emotional and verbal abuse, some of which continues in a subdued form to this very day. Have an issue with a sibling? Doesn't matter what it is, if you said anything negative to the younger sibling, you are automatically at fault. I teased my youngest brother for not knowing what an address bar was, and my dad launches into a tirade about how I'm "Just a dumb liberal college kid who will change his mind when he makes money. And he runs from his problems instead of facing them". The last bit is based on the fact that I hate Texas on so many levels (I don't much care for the people, the climate, or the politics).

I wish I was kidding...


Wow, I really ranted there and went off topic. Sorry.

No problem, man--I feel ya... My parents aren't verbally abusive to me, but I can identify with the constant cringe at the gung-ho Tea Party judgmental pigheadedness.