Christ Centered Gamer

Chozon1 wrote:Wow. I'm so sorry. I mean...just stupid of me. Kissing never turns into something more. I completely forgot that reliable accurate idea and/or interpretation of reality. >_>

The kissing to sex ratio is rather low.

ChickenSoup wrote:That's a really easy position to take when you're not in a relationship, though.

True. But it actually somewhat supports what I'm saying. I mean, you can't date someone without getting physically affectionate?

ArchAngel wrote:The kissing to sex ratio is rather low.

That would be so much easier for me to believe if the unwed pregnancy rate in America wasn't so high. Especially in teens. And if a lot of the people in my own life were different.

Chozon1 wrote:

ChickenSoup wrote:That's a really easy position to take when you're not in a relationship, though.

True. But it actually somewhat supports what I'm saying. I mean, you can't date someone without getting physically affectionate?

Once again, a very easy position to take if you've never been in a relationship.

God literally programmed our bodies to enjoy physical touch, so you're basically fighting your natural tendencies to never make physical contact or something.

True, yes; but not a valid argument. It's completely natural for us to also gorge ourselves on food. But then there's that messy gluttony bit.

To add to that, it's also not a valid point that it's easier for someone to say that's not in a relationship. It's easier for a starving man to condone theft, and it's easier for a broken man to condone lying. Doesn't make it right, even though (as I pointed out above) the desire to eat and enjoy food is a completely natural, God-programmed thingum.

So, wait.

Kissing isn't right?

Chozon1 wrote:True, yes; but not a valid argument. It's completely natural for us to also gorge ourselves on food. But then there's that messy gluttony bit.

To add to that, it's also not a valid point that it's easier for someone to say that's not in a relationship. It's easier for a starving man to condone theft, and it's easier for a broken man to condone lying. Doesn't make it right, even though (as I pointed out above) the desire to eat and enjoy food is a completely natural, God-programmed thingum.

Actually, it's an entirely valid point. You asked whether or not it's possible to be in a relationship without displaying affection physically, and I can tell you that it is incredibly hard to never ever do that, ever, and you won't (can't) understand that until you find a Chozette to call your own. :3 it's just that, well, assuming a loving relationship can be carried out without physical expression of affection is kind of an immature way to look at it--and when I say that, I don't mean to call you immature as a person, just that the particular view is a little.... naive.

And before I go any further, you're my bro and I don't mean to be condescending or anything at all, because, well, let me tell you something: I had a very similar conversation with Drew back in the day, except I was standing right in your shoes, saying the exact same things, and Drew was the one saying "yeah uhhh you're gonna be smooching, broseph, and maybe a little more. It's how things go, it's part of getting older and you'll understand that later on" and I said "yeaaah uh no I am going to play it safe here good sir."

Times change :O

I can kiss my girlfriend without us gettin' our freak on--and, in doing so, still glorify God in all we do. We don't sit there for hours in public being "that couple," and we respect each other. We also understand that it's a display of love on a deeper level and, well, we are wildly in love with one another. Long story short, I just see no need to repress myself that much. Trust me, man. You're going to crave the naughty stuff way more if you go through a relationship for years without any kind of outlet at all. I GET ANTSY, MAN. O_O

Of course, I'd change my views if there were Scriptural backing to support a change of heart in my physical relationships. Until that point, though, I will revel in the smooches and the usual couply snuggly related things.

Reading about girlfriends and affection and kissing in this thread is... is...



For the record, I can't back Soup up by experience but I'm going to have to back him up on this one. My sister went down the no-kissing route, and it just didn't work out. In fact I feel pretty certain it propelled them to do more things then they would have. The paranoia mixed with the need to be physically affectionate just built and when they did find themselves alone (I mean, come on, it's going to happen at some point) it was just like "baby I've been smelling this pie for too long and I think I'm just going to take me a slice"

So, I mean, you can only smell the pie for so long before going crazy. It could be argued that taking a healthy, reasonable amount is better than not taking any and then in a moment of crazed hunger taking the whole thing. But I don't even know if that's a good metaphor it could be that I just want pie

And and and and kisses

I'm going to second "And and and and kisses"

it's like turning down a big slice of chocolate cake AND IF YOU SAY YOU DON'T LIKE CHOCOLATE CAKE I GUESS WE JUST CAN'T BE FRIENDS

Also, Chozon, you can't say that's something's true and then say it's not a valid argument.

That's like keeping a case of Game Fuel under your desk and expecting it to be good five years later.

Drewsov wrote:That's like keeping a case of Game Fuel under your desk and expecting it to be good five years later.

Actually, I disagree.
I watched my bro drink a coke that was around 15 to 20 years old,
He said it was fine. (Though think it was also kinda flat.)

Back on the topic...
...
I am not sure what to say,
I don't have any input at all.

JOJ650s wrote:

Drewsov wrote:That's like keeping a case of Game Fuel under your desk and expecting it to be good five years later.

Actually, I disagree.
I watched my bro drink a coke that was around 15 to 20 years old,
He said it was fine. (Though think it was also kinda flat.)

Back on the topic...
...
I am not sure what to say,
I don't have any input at all.

Well, at least I tried to stay on topic a little bit.

ChickenSoup wrote:

So that's what Obama has been doing.

ChickenSoup wrote:

Chozon1 wrote:True, yes; but not a valid argument. It's completely natural for us to also gorge ourselves on food. But then there's that messy gluttony bit.

To add to that, it's also not a valid point that it's easier for someone to say that's not in a relationship. It's easier for a starving man to condone theft, and it's easier for a broken man to condone lying. Doesn't make it right, even though (as I pointed out above) the desire to eat and enjoy food is a completely natural, God-programmed thingum.

Actually, it's an entirely valid point. You asked whether or not it's possible to be in a relationship without displaying affection physically, and I can tell you that it is incredibly hard to never ever do that, ever, and you won't (can't) understand that until you find a Chozette to call your own. :3 it's just that, well, assuming a loving relationship can be carried out without physical expression of affection is kind of an immature way to look at it--and when I say that, I don't mean to call you immature as a person, just that the particular view is a little.... naive.

And before I go any further, you're my bro and I don't mean to be condescending or anything at all, because, well, let me tell you something: I had a very similar conversation with Drew back in the day, except I was standing right in your shoes, saying the exact same things, and Drew was the one saying "yeah uhhh you're gonna be smooching, broseph, and maybe a little more. It's how things go, it's part of getting older and you'll understand that later on" and I said "yeaaah uh no I am going to play it safe here good sir."

Times change :O

I can kiss my girlfriend without us gettin' our freak on--and, in doing so, still glorify God in all we do. We don't sit there for hours in public being "that couple," and we respect each other. We also understand that it's a display of love on a deeper level and, well, we are wildly in love with one another. Long story short, I just see no need to repress myself that much. Trust me, man. You're going to crave the naughty stuff way more if you go through a relationship for years without any kind of outlet at all. I GET ANTSY, MAN. O_O

Of course, I'd change my views if there were Scriptural backing to support a change of heart in my physical relationships. Until that point, though, I will revel in the smooches and the usual couply snuggly related things.

I'm older than you, numbnut.

Now, you can call me naive (and it be true), but you're still not making valid points. Am I going to want to kiss the girl I lall in fove with? Yes. Of course. But the fact I want to, and it feels natural and is actually the way God designed stuff, is not an excuse to get smoochy. Doubly not with the aspect that the sin within our hearts likes to twist the good things God gave us.

You'd have a point about the fact that repressing it can lead to worse choices later, if there were not so many non-married people pregnant and/or with children out there. The teen pregnancy number alone is incredibly high. By that fact itself, I am lead to believe that even 'kissing' as a way of doing something not evil to keep yourself from 'the evils brought on by repression' and/or giving into 'bigger' temptation later, is entirely ineffective. It'd also help if I didn't know several people who went with the 'kissing is OK, but no further' route and ended up with kids out of wedlock. -_- So no, no point. Told you, I'm jaded.

I don't mind the condescension. It happens. What I do mind is the mockery, hate, scorn, and laughing that 'hand-holding homeschoolers' receive. That's...aside from my natural annoyance at the 'it's the mature thing' argument, is why I'm even in this thread. They're doing what is logically sound, and probably morally. I dislike it intensely when anyone gets onto them for it.

Drewsov wrote:Also, Chozon, you can't say that's something's true and then say it's not a valid argument.

That's like keeping a case of Game Fuel under your desk and expecting it to be good five years later.

Sure can. Those two are not logically dischordant. It's true that animals in nature eat their own young; that is not a valid point that human moms should be allowed to eat their kids.

CountKrazy wrote:So, I mean, you can only smell the pie for so long before going crazy. It could be argued that taking a healthy, reasonable amount is better than not taking any and then in a moment of crazed hunger taking the whole thing. But I don't even know if that's a good metaphor it could be that I just want pie

This is true.

But then, there's actually no guarantee you'll not have a crazy moment while eating that bite and nom it all, is there? There's no guarantee that you'll have that crazy pie fever later, either. You're just using that assumption as an excuse to eat a little now. Even better, you can say you're 'guarding' against going pie crazy later, and feel all happy inside.

Yeah, that was condescending. But really, the whole metaphor just hit me in the face, and I giggled as I wrote it.

Interestingly enough that you bring up the high numbers of teen and extramarital pregnancy, when it is the states that adopt abstinence-only sex education have higher rates of teen pregnancy across the board, and show a rise in teen pregnancy correlated to the installation of abstinence only education.
There are several reasons for this, but I feel this is enough to at least give pause.

Hey, if you could do it, good for you. Not sure what you bought, but at least you feel that you would have gained something. I don't mean this sarcastically or condescendingly. Part of the reason, I believe, that we are disagreeing with you on this subject is we don't want you to go forward and struggle fiercely with yourself and handle the guilt and shame of your stumbles when it is not something you had to do in the first place.

The way I see it is that things are permissible until proven otherwise, and not restricted until proven permissible. There's a lot of life to live out there, and I'd rather live it in freedom than pervasive rule and law. We're supposed to have freedom in Christ, and there's no freedom at all if you only can do the actions that are white-listed.

Now, I'm not saying you think everything is sinful until it's said not to be, because I don't think you do. But the bible never commands or direct that there shall be no physical affection until after marriage. At it's very best, it's a very gray area, and let's be honest, that makes the "rule" of no kissing a man made rule. Not even a law, just a rule that people cannot enforce outside of parenthood. You may or may not agree on this point. Let's say you do, because it seems like your reasoning is a matter of prudence and not biblical law.

Okay, correct me if I'm understanding you wrong, but you want to minimize the chances of you sleeping with someone before you're married and you find the best way is to abstain from kissing. Okay, you're life and you're choice and to your credit, you aren't imposing these ideals on anybody else. Despite what I said about the mindset before, I won't belittle you for your choices on living your own life.
In the most, I'd give my reasoning on the subject and that'd be all. I do agree with the warnings from the others; the pendulum effect is strong indeed, and with the very natural urges (and not necessarily wrong, either. Humans are supposed to show each other physical affection), these effects will be all the more pronounced. It is this very same reason why people going on diets are urged not to starve themselves, because they'll crack eventually (and they always do) and gain even more weight than they had before. And I've seen many kids start out to try and remain pure to the nth degree, but end up with the girl pregnant at the altar. It is by moderation and a sustainable pace does an effective diet last.
In the end, these choices for what level of physical affection you will show will be between you and your future girlfriend (or boyfriend, teeheehee).