It was only a matter of time...

[ccgr]

if they want to get married by the state, fine. Some churches will do it too, but the ones that won't should not be penalized.

[ArchAngel]

I think that's the best route.

[oregorn1997]

Sorry for not replying. I promise I wasn't bailing on you guys because I was asked a question I just got back form being out of town for a couple days.

He's probably referring to a moral perspective. With the increase in infidelity, sexual promiscuity, violence treated as normal or even as a joke, the legalization of abortion, the way this nation is treating its veterans, etc. I'm sure I could list many, many more examples that have come up in the news lately, and we could go into lengthy debate about how "moral" such actions really are (such as the legalization of gay marriage). And many will cite various reasons why this seems to be taking place - I'm sure that the decrease of church attendance will be brought up as a factor, and perhaps even the theory that taking prayer out of public schools would come into focus.

Personally, I think a big part of the problem lies in the whole idea that we are free to do anything we want. Yes, freedom is a good thing. But somewhere along the way, people have lost track of the idea of personal responsibility, too. We are free to do what we want... but we should be prepared to face the consequences of our actions at the same time. A lot of people seem to forget that - or even worse, seem to have the delusion that the consequences don't apply to them. Maybe it has something to do with the bail-out mentality (the government / parents / money will get me out of this if I screw up too badly). People need to have some sort of moral compass - something to indicate what is good and what is evil. Religion can serve as a good way to provide this (although that would lead to a debate about which religion has the right idea of good and evil...). An absence of some sort of moral guidepost, though - a society where everyone can do whatever they want and it all has the same moral equivalency - would be a complete breakdown in society, and likely very short-lived before some other form of moral guidance shows up (probably in the form of a tyrant).

Thank you Sstavix that was what I meant.

'm gonna put on my atheist hat for a second, and say that a lot of this stuff about the world getting worse is because things are getting slightly less fundamentalist Christian in the US. More liberal Christians and most non religious folks don't see gay marriage as a moral problem, for example, but a fundamentalist or evangelical would likely see that as a society wide moral failure. I don't want to argue about whether or not same sex marriage is immoral (though I'll state for the record that I am all for gay marriage), I'm just putting my opinion out there.

I'm not even an atheist and I agree with you. I don't believe in legislating religion, and the biggest, most vehement arguments against homosexuality are primarily religious. I don't think anyone should have to obey a law that only has any kind of validity if you believe the same way as a religious group.


THERE, I SAID IT, I VOTE FOR GAY MARRIAGE. I'm, ahem, out of the closet on that one

And this is where my personal views start to get confusing(even to me)

I do agree with you CS on this.

I believe that homosexuality is biblically wrong, but I do agree that the general populace shouldn't have to follow rules from someone else's religion.

[itsakitten]

This is pretty vapid, imo. It's really easy to break this down:
Pedophiles are people who want to have a relationship that is only consenting on one side: theirs. The reason Pedophelia is illegal is because a child cannot consent to sex, or being in partnership with an adult, even if they can be convinced to, because they are not mature enough to make that decision.

So pedophiles asking for the same rights as a gay couple is pedantic and ridiculous, because a gay partnership is between two consenting adults, who are able to make the decision to be part of it, and are both legally responsible for themselves.

As if the struggle for gay rights isn't muddy enough from religious backlash; it really isn't nescessary to try and equivocate having sex with minors with having sex with someone of the same gender who is an ADULT.