Now if God promised the Holy Spirit to us, why would he back out of His promise and take away our salvation? He is not an un-faithful God. God always delivers 110% on His promises.Ephesians 1:13-14, Paul says our inheritance is guaranteed:
And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God's possession—to the praise of his glory.
In 2 Corinthians 1:21-22, Paul says we have a guarantee and adds that this "seal" means God owns us:
Now it is God who makes both us and you stand firm in Christ. He anointed us, set his seal of ownership on us, and put his Spirit in our hearts as a deposit, guaranteeing what is to come.
Then in Romans 8:38-39, Paul says nothing, not even us, can cause the loss of salvation:
For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
God may be faithful to us... but can any of us be 100% faithful to Him? We can certainly try... but needless to say, even if being a faithful member for decades, all of us are human, and any of us can stumble and fall.Now if God promised the Holy Spirit to us, why would he back out of His promise and take away our salvation? He is not an un-faithful God. God always delivers 110% on His promises.
22 Now it was the Feast of Dedication in Jerusalem, and it was winter. 23 And Jesus walked in the temple, in Solomon’s porch. 24 Then the Jews surrounded Him and said to Him, “How long do You keep us in doubt? If You are the Christ, tell us plainly.”
25 Jesus answered them, “I told you, and you do not believe. The works that I do in My Father’s name, they bear witness of Me. 26 But you do not believe, because you are not of My sheep, as I said to you. 27 My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. 28 And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand. 29 My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of My Father’s hand. 30 I and My Father are one.”
Well, no, that interpretation doesn't follow simply from the word "eternal." The word you want here is "immutable." Salvation is certainly eternal provided we don't cast it off.if we have ETERNAL life then we can't lose our salvation.
Well, no. We're not saying Jesus is a liar. We're saying He never said salvation was immutable in the first place, which is true.So, honestly, we can't lose our salvation, it's eternal, God even said so, and if God said so it's true, He can't lie. Then, wouldn't saying that losing our salvation is saying that Jesus is wrong? That salvation is NOT eternal? That doesn't hold any water in the Bible or the Christian life, it's saying the our LORD Jesus was wrong, calling Him a liar.
So someone who loses his faith and wants nothing more to do with the Lord would have to be dragged kicking and screaming into Heaven? That seems very odd to me.It says, here, in John 10:29 that no one, not a single person nor thing, can snatch the saved from God's hand.
The notion that a person who is really saved will go to heaven, and if they fall away it was because they were never really saved to begin with is circular logic.So, we are either saved, and have eternal life with Jesus Christ our LORD, or we are not saved, and simply act like it.
And again, I tell you, the parable of the seeds, the one that grows and falls away, it is the likeness of a man who proclaims that he is saved, and acts righteous, but he isn't, and so, when he comes under trials he crumbles and falters because he does not have true faith in Christ.
I would think there is a slight misinterpretation there. Jesus Christ and Heavenly Father will love us no matter what. However, this isn't necessarily a two-way street; He still loves us even if we don't love him back. As with the parable of the prodigal son, even if we leave that love and do some pretty terrible things, we will still be loved and we can return if we choose to do so.1. In Romans 8:38-39 it states that nothing in creation will be able to separate us from the love of Jesus Christ. Being that we are within God's creation, wouldn't even ourselves be incapable of cutting our ties with the LORD? Or am I misinterpreting?
I would also consider the aspect of free will, too. If you are of the mindset that we have no free will, then we indeed wouldn't be able to break away from it. However, I think that we have all been given the gift of free will, as part of the process to refine ourselves for whatever we will find on the other side. There is another thread around here about the existence of free will, if you wanted to look into that.2. In John 10:27-30, Jesus says that no one would be able to snatch us from Him. Would we not also be included in that "no one"? However, at the same time he describes his sheep as those who listen to Him and follow Him, which I could see the other viewpoint in. So what exactly are those verses trying to convey about this? Because it seems like a contradiction, which I know doesn't truly exist in God's Word, which makes me think that maybe I'm looking at those verses in the wrong way? I'd enjoy some correction.
3. Now for the more random one. What of young children and unborn? Are they also to perish before understanding? And if not, where do you draw the line?
The LDS church believes the "age of accountability," or the age when we are all responsible for our own sins, is 8 years old. Other churches may have their own opinions, but there's one statement, at least.I don't know what the "age" is but I do believe that babies (unborn or not) and children go to heaven, when king David lost his son, he said that his son could not return to him but he would go to him. (2 Sam 12:23)
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