Moral Issues Facing The Church

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Re: Moral Issues Facing The Church

Post by Chozon1 »


1) I'm not really sure, to be honest. I'd like to say it's absolute, and in some aspects it certainly is. In others, it's cultural.

2) No, not ever. Our definition of modesty should come from God.

3) Yes.

4) Depends on the clothing. But you are perceived they way you are dressed. I'm generally perceived to be a nerd/grungy homeless man.

5) a) Depends on the locale, really. In America, probably not much of an argument. In Central America? Unless you want heat stroke every five minutes...

b) I'd consider that a good thing. But also, changing your clothing just to get noticed is a bad idea. It's superficial, and usually the change is not for the better.

c) Agreed. But you don't need to be naked to do so, and unless you happen to be in an Olympic pool with a timer, water resistance isn't an issue.

d) Also true. But why make it easier? Or on the other side of the coin, harder to not stare.

6) A lot of people? Yeah, they know. What with the tanning, and weight loss, and man girdles. But for the record, some people honestly don't know or understand. And I doubt most people think it through.

7) The one is self serving, and relies on the way others see you. The other is selfless, but still is in some way reliant on how others see you. I'm sort between. It's different for a guy, especially an overweight one. Most of the time, I dress comfortably, albeit even shabbily, because I honestly don't care what others think, good or bad. Modesty rarely comes into the equation.


1) a) After the fall, they realized they were naked, so they made clothing for themselves out of fig leaves.

b) Adam hid from God because he was afraid because he was naked. I think it's possible, yes. At least spiritually.

c) Not really, I think. God made them more durable clothing, and in some ways showed that the death of something else was the only way we could be covered from our nakedness, but the bible doesn't specify that the clothing God made them was different in any way but material.

2) Yes.

3) Shamefulness, evil, or defeat.

4) a) Joseph was leaving behind the dungeon, and wanted to convey good things about himself to Pharoah.

b) The prostitute likely dressed in a suggestive way so as to show her vocation?

c) Wedding clothing symbolized salvation.

d) The ladies in this passage were to dress in a way that showed their hearts and not their bodies.

e) The mans clothing conveyed his status in society?

5) Modesty: The quality of character of being free from vanity or boastfulness; something designed to prevent exposure of parts of the body.

Propriety: appropriateness to the purpose or circumstances; suitability.

Moderation: the quality of being moderate; restraint; avoidance of extremes or excesses; temperance.

6) inclined to lustfulness; wanton; lewd. People who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom.

7) You will fall among the fallen.

8) Yes, to a certain extend. We shouldn't do anything that causes someone else to stumble, even to the point of going out of our way or denying ourselves stuff we consider harmless.

9) Yes...and no. For one thing, I absolutely despise when people blame Bathsheba for David's lust. Bathing on one's roof was completely acceptable back then, given the climate and house design. And heck, it was freaking night time. Cities didn't have streetlights back then. David was the one who was in the wrong place at the wrong time, and could've simply turned his eyes away and went about his kingly bidness.

At the same time...she could have said no to him. Yes, saying no to King David would have been hard or perhaps even deadly, but...she still could have said no, and went about her bidness.

10) Difficult to say. A lot, I'd think, from my own perspective. Aside from bodily differences, the cultural pressure to dress in specific ways is a lot harder on women than men.


1) Depends on the swimsuit, I'd think. Some are modest, some aren't. I'm happy if the one I'm wearing stays on and opaque, honestly. I'm not sure what can be done. I'm reasonably certain I'd never stop to think about this on an average day at the beach. @_@ Best thing is to keep my eyes where they belong and my mind on the possibility of getting bitten by a fish.

2) No, I don't think so. I think we should strive to present and image God would be proud of? Besides, my calves are like chiseled granite.

3) One shouldn't enjoy tanning, since that leatherizes your skin and causes cancer. I don't know if there are practical solutions here, since the study assumes there are no modest swimsuits and that apparently anything revealing more than toes is immodest. I'd say the best solution would be to make comfortable, stylish swim wear that was also modest. And maybe didn't have that horrible polyester mesh liner.

4) The fleshly side.

5) Yes. This whole lesson was bizarre to me, since the clothing worn in ye olde times would likely be considered immodest now, and vice versa. It also assumes the bible gives a standard for modesty (as in hem length and such) when it really doesn't. We're supposed to dress modestly, but back then, that meant a robe and a tunic, as well as perhaps a head dress, not jeans and socks/floor length dress.

At the same time, we're really lax now on what it means to be modest, and any suggestion to remedy this tends to lead to comments like "Well grow up and learn to deal" or "I can dress how I want".

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Re: Moral Issues Facing The Church

Post by ccgr »


Preliminary Thoughts

1. I would say absolute, any kind of dressing to be provocative would be immodest.
2. No, society's views shift
3. Yes
4. What you wear reflects your situation of feelings
5. If it's hot you don't have to wear a sweat suit, but you can wear shorts that are not Daisy Dukes
People do notice you
No it is not a sin to swim but you don't have to wear a dental floss bikini
Perhaps but if you're not wearing much, they will lust more
6. Yes they know it and shave or lose weight accordingly...
7. I tend to wear video game tshirts and one piece bathing suits, I do wear shorts but try to wear skimpy ones

What does the Bible say?

1. They were naked and made leafy underwear, they still considered themselves naked. God gave them more conservative clothes.
2. Yes.
3. Being exposed or indecent
a) clean shaven, well kept makes a good impression
b) you can tell a prostitute by what they wear
c) under dressing is embarrassing
d) modest apparel is good
e) be kind to the poor with tattered clothes

modesty-regard for decency of behavior, speech, dress, etc.
shamefacedness-Indicative of shame; ashamed
sobriety-the quality of refraining from excess

6. lasciviousness-Given to or expressing lust, they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

7. they shall fall among them that fall

8. Yes, we should not willingly cause others to stumble

9. Why didn't she bathe privately or protest?

10. It goes both ways

Practical Solutions

1. I agree, I wear modest swim wear

2. You should wear what give a righteous and good impression

3. Do it in private? Stay modest in public

4. Sinful nature

5. I gotta watch what I wear since I have young and impressionable minds.

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Re: Moral Issues Facing The Church

Post by Chozon1 »

New Age Movement

1) A set of barely legible ideas that tend to lean towards spirituality without truth?

2) I'm not sure it's just one philosophy. I'm guessing it's because people want spirituality without the hard stuff.

3) People who want hope in something beyond themselves, or a drug to blind them to reality.

4) a) Pantheism is the belief and worship of multiple gods.

b) Reincarnation is the belief that your soul is reborn into a new life on this earth after you die, in progressive and different lives.

c) Karma is sort of payment for the things you do; good stuff leads to further enlightenment, bad stuff leads to regression.

d) I have no idea what this is. And annoyingly enough when I looked in a thesaurus all I got was the movie.

e) Higher self, I think, is the concept of there being a more evolved spiritual self that you can contact?

f) I imagine this one is related to relativism and existentialism? The belief that truth is relative, and existence is defined by our beliefs? Scary.


a) Meditation is the practice of zeroing all thought and looking deep within ones self for enlightenment (in this context, I think).

b) Creepstake. Letting spiritual forces take control over your body and actions.

c) Harder to define. I imagine it's hanging out with ghosts and/or trying to contact paranormal beings.

d) Hey now, that's not fair. Sure, waving a turtle shell over someone is new age and perhaps evil, but not all holistic medicine is based in magic and drug induced visions.

e) I think this is where people believe they can focus their souls to a point where they can leave their bodies and travel.

6) Channeling isn't new, nor trying to contact the spirit world for enlightenment. Most of the spiritual sides of the new age movement are ancient.

7) I'm not sure anyone actually believes that outside of the movie. But the belief that stars and mystic forces are in control of our lives, and that we can tap into that power if we just try, seem to be important?

8) Fear, I think. And I'll be the first to admit that this stuff frightens me. At least some of it. I...don't think it is right to dismiss stuff like this as fakery or trickery. Satan prowls around like a roaring lion, and there's freaky evil spiritual stuff recorded in the Bible.


1) That there is one God, who created nature; He is not nature, but is outside of it and master of it.

2) That we die once, and then go before God for judgment.

3) That God determines our steps, not us.

4) That their thinking is nonsense, and claiming to be wise, they're actually foolish.

5) I'm guessing it's the fact that they notice the splendor and wonder of creation, but instead of giving God the credit, turn towards a lie instead.

6) No. It's handy, but not necessary to know something is wrong.


a) Because God says it is wrong.

b) Yes.

c) Yes, with the caveat that they are "false miracles, signs and wonders".

d) Satan disguises himself as an angel of light, and his servants disguise themselves as servants of righteousness.

e) Yes. Though I'm not certain it's another realm so much as it is this world, just invisible to our eyes.

f) I would say no. Supernatural can be anything outside of the natural order. Demons and their foul deeds fall under this category, whereas I tend to think of a miracle as God doing something awesome that cannot happen, or would not happen, normally.

g) God. ^_^

h) We'll be caught in Satan's trap and turn to evil deeds.

8) No. I'm guessing it's because people want either knowledge, or comfort.

9) I don't know if we can; I don't know if we should try. We don't need to listen to it whatever the origins.

10) God will leave us, and we cannot go to heaven.


1) No. We should turn to God and walk in the light.

2) To turn our thoughts towards Christ, and demolish the lies.

3) We can turn to God. Jesus is our source of enlightenment.

4) In God.

5) Nope. Spooky stuff. Well, it's either spooky or kooky, and finding the difference can be dangerous, I 'spose. Especially in the current world, where we can purchase ouiji boards at the local toy store. O_o

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Re: Moral Issues Facing The Church

Post by ccgr »

New Age Movement

Preliminary Thoughts

1. A New Age of heightened spiritual consciousness and international peace would arrive and bring an end to racism, poverty, sickness, hunger, and war.

2. Famous actors and movies endorse it like Star Wars...May the force be with you

3. Anyone wanting peace

4. pantheism - a doctrine that equates God with the forces and laws of the universe
reincarnation- you become another living thing after you die
karma-good or bad deed come back to help or haunt you
altered states-a state of mind that differs from the normal state of consciousness, typically one induced by drugs, hypnosis, or mental disorder.
higher self- a person's spiritual self, as the focus of many meditation techniques, as opposed to the physical body
create your own reality - This is a planet of free choice, and you have your own free will.

5. Meditation - to engage in mental exercise (as concentration on one's breathing or repetition of a mantra) for the purpose of reaching a heightened level of spiritual awareness
Channeling - to serve as a medium through whom the spirit of (a person of a former age) allegedly communicates with the living
Paranormal Experiences - beyond normal explanation
Holistic medicine - An approach to medical care that emphasizes the study of all aspects of a person's health, including physical, psychological, social, economic, and cultural factors.
Astral Projection - assumes the existence of an "astral body" separate from the physical body and capable of traveling outside it

6. Messing with the spiritual world is an ancient (and not recommended )practice

7. The term New Age comes from astrology. The zodiac, which originated in ancient Babylon, is a wheel of twelve signs mirroring the constellations found on the apparent path of the sun in the sky. Each sign represents both a period of the year and an age in history. It would take about 25,000 years for our solar system to move through these star signs.The New Age movement teaches that we are moving into an age of enlightenment. The current Age of Pisces, which has an emphasis on formal religion, is to be replaced by the Age of Aquarius, or the Age of Enlightenment. ... ine_Pisces" onclick=";return false;

8. The Bible is against such practices, if God wanted us to know about the spiritual realm, He would have revealed it to us.

What Does the Bible Say?

1. God is everlasting and the creator of all

2. After death is judgement not reincarnation

3. The Lord oversees and directs us

4. They are worshiping the creation rather than the creator

5. They are foolish without excuse for not seeing God in his creation

6. No, anything that is not glorifying God is wrong

7. Messing with the spiritual world is an abomination to God. Yes people do fellowship with demons. Satan can work miracles too. Satan inserts a little truth into his lies to make them believable. Yes, there is a spiritual realm. Some supernatural activities may seem like miracles but when God intervenes, that's a miracle. When in doubt, consult the Bible and pray, We can get ensnared if we disobey God.

8. No it's old news, many people wish to communicate with the deceased.

9. It's okay to question God, He proved himself to Gideon but many spirits are deceitful and anything that goes against the Bible should be ignored (and shouldn't be tamped with to begin with!)

10. God will not let such people inherit His kingdom

Practical Solutions

1. No way! Turn to God.

2. They go against God.

3. The Bible and God.

4. In the body of Christ, plug in at church!

5. Avoid new age crap and psychics

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Re: Moral Issues Facing The Church

Post by Chozon1 »

1) offensive to morality or decency; indecent; depraved:

a. Our language can be very foul or indecent.
b. Porn is generally obscene anyway, and I really just don't want to consider the specifics.
c. Music often has explicit language or themes in it.
d. You can see porn or horrifically violent things on TV pretty easily now, not to mention here them.
e. The deuce with TV. It's usually worse in movies though.
f. Jokes can be obscene when the subject matter is, or if someone just starts telling lewd jokes.
g. Flipping someone the bird is lewd.

3) profane conduct or language; a profane act or utterance.

4) God's name.

5) Failing morals; much of this stuff gets by under freedom of speech, artistry, and greed.

6) Heh. No, it doesn't make it OK, it just certifies that the government cannot step in and illegalize a word, or control your speech. Doesn't have anything to do with right or wrong.

7) Distressed, and/or tormented.


1) a) Our speech shows what is in our hearts.

b) We will have to account for every word we speak, and will will be condemned or acquitted by them.

c) Rotten talk and slander.

d) The arrogant.

e) Because evil or foul words is inconsistant with the goodness and grace we need to speak. As for why people swear (meaning you make some exclamation when you say, hit your thumb or do something stupid), I think it's because it hurts, or we wish we hadn't done it. I say "poo" or "doo-doo meringues" fairly frequently. As for why people "swear" using dirty me. Seems silly to use foul language when the cleaner alternatives work just as well.

f) Seems so. At least an estimate. Scary thought.

2) a) Those things come straight from the evil parts of us, and if we do them, we won't make it to heaven.

b) No, He does not.

c) The worse. And it doesn't stop at just a little, but grows.

3) a) Good ones, worshipful ones, sad ones, happy ones, and evil ones. If the song is obscene, I'm lean toward evil. It bothers me to no end when I hear dirty songs and they get stuck in my head. O_o Especially when they've a catchy melody that I find myself humming.

b) Not good influence, despite the protestation to the contrary. I wouldn't call it proper.

4) Yes, there are. If they're things we should avoid talking about, why am I having to list them? Pleh. Sexual immorality, impurity, and greed, as well as rotten talk. We can avoid gossiping about the latest scandals, as well as avoid telling dirty jokes, even if they make us laugh (which, shamefully, I'll admit happens).

5) I think it's the motivations behind it. But also, more, what other people see it as meaning.


1) Guard ourselves carefully against it.

2) Keep our minds on God, and God's things, and ask Him for help.

3) Our hearts, on both accounts. We need to dwell on things above, on good, perfect, holy, just and honorable things (this is not easy though).

4) To have a clear conscience, to avoid causing anyone to fall, and to appear blameless before God.

5) I've not had much trouble avoiding swearing thus far in life, but I know how much of a bear it can be to stop. I also know how hard it is to care about it, since frankly, you can hear people drop the F-bomb a dozen times walking through the grocery store, to say nothing of public schools.

Essentially, our culture does not favor those who resist.

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Re: Moral Issues Facing The Church

Post by ccgr »


Preliminary Thoughts
1. offensive to morality or decency; indecent; depraved
2. language- swearing
pornography- indecent
music- swearing
television- indecent
movies- language, indecency
dirty jokes- indecent
gestures- indecent
3. profanity- profane conduct or language; a profane act or utterance.
4. God
5. Fools rule and change standards
6. Just because it's okay to do doesn't make it right
7. Saddened

What does the Bible say?
1. What does the Bible say about obscene language?
our heart
we will be judged
can't be holy and curse, frustration, sin

2. What does the Bible say about obscene pornography?
filled with evil
no lust is lust

3. What does the Bible say about obscene entertainment?
Singing can be full of worship or filth
People will imitate what they see on TV good o bad

4. What does the Bible say about dirty jokes?
yes, no obscene talk

5. What does the Bible say about obscene gestures?
The gestures and facial expressions are obvious

Practical Solutions
1. Abstain from it
2. Think before you speak
3. your heart, your mind
4. Have a clean conscience
5. Try to keep a pure heart, mind and tongue

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Re: Moral Issues Facing The Church

Post by Chozon1 »


1) a belief or doctrine that inherent differences among the various human races determine cultural or individual achievement, usually involving the idea that one's own race is superior and has the right to rule others.

2) unreasonable feelings, opinions, or attitudes, especially of a hostile nature, regarding a racial, religious, or national group.

3) a) White people have a superiority complex.

b) Chinese kids are smart.

c) Black people do drugs.

4) Sometimes it's cultural, sometimes it's experiential, and some people were raised that way by their parents.

5) a) If you believe something about a person or people group before you even know them, you're likely not going to give them a chance to disprove/prove it.

b) If we look down on people because of their skin tone or such, it implies that there really is a level of difference instead of it just being hogwash.

c) If we set people apart or sequester them, again, it implies there's an actual reason for it, instead of it being silly beliefs.

d) I'm guilty of this one, actually. At least minorly. Stereotypes essentially say that because one person/several persons of a certain race are one way, everyone of that race is. Which isn't real or fair.

6) I 'spose there's the inherent conflict between black and white, and them being polar opposites. At the same time, I'd be insulted if someone called me "pink" FAR more than being called white. But they do set us up on opposite sides, in theory.

7) much yes.

8) Not really. And yet...possibly. I automatically disagree, because the church is the very last place that should happen. At the same time, it frequently does, especially in small churches. I'd say no, on the whole.


1) Yes. Very much so.

2) That it's silly? God judges us on our hearts.

3) Nope.

4) No; God chose them because God chose them, not because they were superior or special in any way. I think the Israelites did believe themselves special though.

5) We are warned about pride, and the long fall it brings. We're supposed to consider others as more important than ourselves.

6) God only cares about what we do and our hearts, not where we came from, or what color our skin is.

7) We aren't to hate anyone, because if we do, we do not belong to God. I don't think you could be a member of a racial gang and be a Christian. Or...if you are, there's some serious issues.

8) Love doesn't give a flying rip what you look like.

9) That it would be for all peoples.

a) That it would belong to anyone who called on God.

b) Because salvation was believed to be for the Jews only. Or at least, the holy priesthood was to belong to Jews only.

c) One flock, and one congregation.

10) I believe so. Paul said he "stood condemned".

a) Not particularly.

b) Break them down and trample them. We certainly shouldn't ignore them or just live with it.

c) Nope. Dumb too.

11) The mark was a warning to others not to kill Cain. The curse was being sent out.

Not at all. In any way. Doesn't even imply the "mark" was a blackening of the skin. Doesn't even imply that Canaan's line would be enslaved, but just Canaan. Not than I can see.

12) Nowhere that I have found.

a) Religious and moral.

b) I cannot see that He was. Miriam and Aaron were, ironically.

c) Rahab and Ruth, at least.


1) If I'm honest, yes in some ways. More towards people groups and age brackets than skin tones, though.

2) No. It eats away at us and boogers our thinking.

3) No.

4) Do to others what we want them to do for us.
Love others as ourself.
God accepts anyone who does righteousness and fears Him.
To slander no one, avoid fighting, be kind, always showing gentleness to all people.
Try to see what's on the inside, not look only at outward appearance.
To realize that we are all new creations in Jesus, not just the physical bodies we see presently.
To try and reach all peoples, not just the ones we think are worthy.
To hang out with good people, since bad company corrupts good morals.
Be humble and love others, considering them more important than ourselves.

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Re: Moral Issues Facing The Church

Post by ccgr »


1. racism - hatred or intolerance of another race or other races.
2. prejudice - unreasonable feelings, opinions, or attitudes, especially of a hostile nature, regarding a racial, religious, or national group.
3. a. Mexicans don't speak English
b. black people do drugs
c. White people are superior.
4. Brought up with it.
5. prejudice - You have to get to know someone before judging them. If you don't give them a chance you're in the wrong.
discrimination - You should treat everyone fairly regardless
segregation - unless there is a deadly disease involved, I think it's wrong
stereotyping - people should be judged on their own merits, not of their group
6. Labels are rarely good, we have to focus on the inside of a person, not the exterior
7. Of course
8. Perhaps not intentionally but it happens. While all are welcome,people of other races may not be comfortable if they are a minority.

What does the Bible say?
1. Yes it was
2. Don't do it
3. God loves us all
4. God wanted them to be holy and no do as other races and nations do
5. We deceive ourselves when we think we are better
6. We are all the same in His eyes
7. We should avoid and love everyone, even our enemies.
8. Love treats everyone the same
9. Anyone who calls upon the Lord will be saved
Gentiles could be saved too
One fold
10. Yes he stood condemned. I think unity is awesome, I would love to see more interracial churches. Churches should have a welcoming atmosphere.
11. Not sure what the mark was other than a warning of not to kill him.
12. It was forbidden to prevent them from following other faiths. God is cool with IR marriages. Rahab and Ruth.

Practical Solutions
1. I can be insensitive at times
2. If it's in our hearts, we're guilty
3. No, it paints with a broad brush
4. Matt 7:12 - do as you want done to you
Matt 22:39 - love your neighbor as yourself
Acts 10:34 - God shows no partiality
Titus 3:2 - show perfect courtesy toward all people
1 Sam 16:7 - man looks on the outward appearance, but the LORD looks on the heart.
2 Cor 5:17 - Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation
Matt 28:19 - Go therefore and make disciples of all nations
1 Cor 15:33 - Do not be deceived: “Bad company ruins good morals
Phil 2:3 - in humility count others more significant than yourselves.

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Re: Moral Issues Facing The Church

Post by Chozon1 »

1) devoted to, directed toward, or connected with the affairs, interests, or pleasures of this world.

2) I 'spose it would be being familiar enough with the world to get around?

3) I...don't know? Probably humans; but at the same time, God doesn't want us to be aloof, so...

4) Because they seem harmless, or even productive.

5) a. I guess mom's could forget about their children? Or place their jobs above them? Seems like something a dad could do too though.

b. Doing things that aren't productive? Hitting bars? I don't know.

c. Christians can't marry people who are not also Christians.

d. Getting ahead in the business world by unjust practices.

e. I'm guessing this would be missing a day here and there for non-emergency reasons.

f. Christians should not likely grow up to become professional gamblers.

6) I'd say non-christians cops and Firemen. They have my respect and admiration. If I'm understanding the question aright.

7) Maybe the business man who makes his company grow at the sacrifice of moral bidness?


1) I haven't seen the phrase "respectable worldliness" come up in the bible yet; just "worldliness". Being friends with the world means being an enemy of God.

2) That their end is destruction.

3) Our relationship with God.

4) Everything on this planet will burn away, but spiritual things will remain.

5) We get caught up in the notion that if we live correctly, without sinning, God can buzz around in the background while we do what we really want.

6) a. We have to choose either God or the world to be our master; not both.

b. Poop. God comes first, stuff falls into place afterwards.

c. We need to use the gifts God has given us to serve Him; not just get a green card and take a nap (which admittedly, I have done most of my life).

d. We need to remember who we are now, and where we are going.

7) a. I guess Lot put living comfortably and raising sheep before living correctly.

b. I'm not sure I agree with this being a case of respectable worldliness so much as a mistake, or lack of care. But Uzzah should have shown God more respect, maybe?

c. Not respectable either; Gehazi lied in order to gain riches. Worldly, sinful, but respectable? No.

d. Martha got caught up in everyday living and care to the point of almost forgetting God.

e. The dude got so busy thinking about how his money would take care of him, that he forgot what's important in life.

f. Demas did not continue serving in the ministry because he wanted the things of the world more?

8) Because the pleasures of being a prince on earth for a short time do not compare with the riches of being God's child forever.

Daniel could have chosen to defile himself with the king's food, but he held to God's law, because he knew in the end it would make them healthier and better.


1) I don't know, to be honest. I'm still not sold on the concept of "respectable worldliness". Maybe watching TV and gaming?

2) Well, if we start focusing too much on earthly stuff and forget God, Satan has a foothold in our lives.

3) a. Put things in the proper perspective (IE: it's not worth it to gain money over doing what's right, since we cannot take it with us)

b. We need to be God's children, living like God's children.

c. GIGO. Who we hang with shapes our lives and persons.

d. We need to run in such a way as to win the prize, not hanging onto stuff that only trips us.

e. We need to remember that our lives are in heaven, not earth.

4) Admittedly, I didn't understand the lesson, and even more admittedly, that frightens me since I wonder if that means I'm blind to the plank in my own eye. O_o

I don't understand the concept of "respectable worldliness". Seems like it's just a repackaging of worldliness, and I don't understand the line. Seems arbitrary. At the same time, it seems like he was putting things like doing our best in a business or profession as "worldly", and that was something I thought God wanted us to do.

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Re: Moral Issues Facing The Church

Post by ccgr »

Respectable Worldliness

1. Thinking of now and not eternity
2. An oxymoron
3. It would seem more beneficial to mankind
4. Just because something is culturally acceptable doesn't make it right. Yes woman can do many jobs as men could in today's society. It wan't Gods plan for them to work or put themselves in danger. Is it wrong? Depends on the family situation in my opinion.
working mothers- it's best for kids to be raised by their parents but in today's economy it's difficult
use of free time - usually doesn't honor God
choice of marriage partners - choice is good as long as it's approved by God and parents
business practices - many companies cut corners to succeed...but God is watching
church attendance - on the decline
choice of career - choice is good but some jobs are shady or downright deplorable
6. Anyone who is a good and charitable person even if they are not Christian or consider the hereafter
7. A business person making unethical decisions for short term gains

What does the Bible say?
1. God does not stand behind it
2. Their motives are evil
3. Jesus and his promise of eternal life
4. The world and everything within is temporary
5. So many Christians get distracted (myself included!), gotta keep God as a priority
6. You have to choose world or God, cannot have both, God will not be mocked you reap what you sow, God want s relationship with you not meaningless time, you have to have an eternal mind set
Lot lived on the edge of sin
Uzzah touched the Ark when he knew it was wrong
Gehazi over stepped his bounds and lied on his master's behalf for riches
Martha focused on the short term things when Jesus was in her midst!
The rich fool only thought of his riches and not his eternal future
Demas put the world first
8. Moses could have lived an easy life in Egypt but claimed his heritage as an Israelite
Daniel could have feasted like a king but did not want to defile himself
Practical Solutions
1. Running this website while it is God honoring can also cause me to focus more on games than quality time with God, gotta keep things balanced and in the proper perspective
2. It's more dangerous since people are okay with it
3. We have to focus on God and surround ourselves with fellow believers to keep ourselves accountable. We must stand apart and not give into worldly temptations
4. Gotta stay focused on the prize and honor God every step of the way

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Re: Moral Issues Facing The Church

Post by Chozon1 »

1) Fairly extensive, and apparently growing more so.

2) It's uncomfortable, and sad.

3) I have considered it. But it would be handy for others to have an understanding, and perhaps know of a way to prevent it.

4) Yes; apparently elderly white males are more liable than most others, and males in general more likely to commit suicide by a stunning margin.

5) Depression, fear, fighting. Despair.

6) a. For people wanting attention, perhaps. More, I would think, simply so they could know someone actually wanted them to live.

b. Sometimes life gets so overwhelming that it's hard to see a way to win.

c. Being outside the group all the time is incredibly lonely after awhile.

d. Despair, plain and deadly, will suck the life out of you like nothing else.

7) People may try this simply to show others they need help; or because they want to know that someone else wants them to live.

8) If you don't know God, suicide is only a short cut to Hell. And no, they aren't the only person affected. Friends and family will be hurt too.

9) Despair, depression, terror.

10) Essentially, it says "if your life isn't good, it's not worth living".

11) No. It's giving in to fear and essentially, if you know God, calling Him a liar.

12) Murder. Because the doc is killing someone; even if you ask for it, it's murder.


1) Saul and his armor bearer, Judas...Can't think of any others.

2) Job, and David, definitely. Maybe Paul, since he despaired of life sometimes?

3) a) God gives us life.

b) We belong to God.

c. It is a foul sin.

4) We shouldn't think of ourselves as more important than anything else, but we should love ourselves and take our life as a gift from God.

I will say though, that this is not as easy as it sounds when gripped by terror and despair.

5) a. Elijah took his depression and handed it to God.

b. Job wanted to escape the bitterness of life; so did Paul, but PAul knew that our struggles are "light and temporary" compared to God's glory, so he was willing to life through the struggle.

c. I'm not so sure that was a fear of failure so much as it was a fear of what his bosses would do to him when they found out the prisoners escaped; he was a dead man, and death by a sword might have been less painful in his eyes. Regardless, he wanted to kill himself, but was shown that he hadn't failed, and so he turned to God.

d. Saul, I think, was not so much prideful as he was terrified of the torture he'd endure before death. He killed himself out of fear; Ahithophel killed himself because his advice wasn't followed, and that wounded his pride.

e. Judas realized the horror of what he had done, and couldn't live with himself.

1) Show them kindness and love; go out of our way to be with them, and be brother/sister to them.

2) Paul loved others more than himself, and trusted God to take him home on His timing.

3) To Jesus.

a. The poor, the blind, the captive; the bruised reed, the smoldering wick; all who were weary and burdened.

b. Jesus. He is always with us, and able to help us.

4) Tough one. I've had suicidal thoughts before, and still struggle with despair and's much easier to be on the outside looking in, than having to fight and claw just to breath, let alone try and live. God is faithful though, and has not, nor will He, let me fall yet. But it's only trust in Him that get's me out of be din the morning.

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Re: Moral Issues Facing The Church

Post by ccgr »


1. It's worldwide and not going away any time soon
2. I think everyone knows somebody who has done it and doesn't want to bring it up
3. To better understand those that are thinking of it
4. White males seem to take the lead
5. Pain or terminal illness, stress. or to escape a bad situation
a. cry for help
b. stressed out
c. lonely
d. hopeless
7. It means that the person is dealing with issues beyond their control and needs family or friend intervention
8. Depends on where they are going if they succeed. It hurts family and friends close to them.
9. Hopelessness
10. Suicide for the terminally ill is gaining acceptance
11. Not really, the truth comes out soon after
12. Taking a life without consent is murder, but taking a life with consent it considered mercy. God knows what he is doing and his timing always perfect.

What does the Bible say?
1. Saul, Judas
2. Jonah, Job
a. God
b. God
c. Their blood will be shed too
4. We shouldn't treat anyone differently than ourselves
Depression: hand your problems to God
Escape: Life will get better if you let it and take strength in the Lord
Failure: Don't make hasty judgments
Pride: Pride can consume us and cause us to make bad decisions
Guilt: God can forgive us but will still have to deal with the consequences

1. Show them genuine love
2. Waited on God's time
3. God, the sick, poor, possessed. God's strength is sufficient
4. Even though God's timing is always right I do feel bad for those wishing to be able to take their lives from pain and suffering. :( Gotta pray for those who are suffering physically and emotionally.

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Re: Moral Issues Facing The Church

Post by Chozon1 »

1) Abuse, rage, plain evil...self-defense probably.

2) The sin nature. The evil in our hearts.

3) a. Anger and ignorance and hatred combined.

b. Tension builds up so much that violence is an evil way of letting the steam off.

c. Same as frustration, I think.

d. Same as frustration, but with maliciousness added. You aren't in a blind rage, you're actually desiring to hurt someone.

e. If you don't see someone as worth caring about, you'll not care about shoving them out of your way or stepping on them.

f. Despair can make you desperate. Feeling like you have nothing to lose or gain can lead to very dark places.

g. If we believe we deserve something, we might do anything to get it.

4) Violence is the easy and accepted way if you forget God, or turn away from Him.

5) People can, scarily, turn into a pack of rampaging animals. If people around us start doing something, we're likely to do it too.

6) You can beat someone down with harsh words, or unkind actions.

7) Peer pressure, sometimes; others, apathy or anarchistic leanings. Other times, you may just really hate or be angry at someone.

8) There is a very great evil in the human heart which, if we don't turn to God, will lead us down the path of depravity.

9) Because it is a horrific act of physical force.

10) Apathy and mind rot; if you see people as less than human, less than something God created, or see yourself as better than them, evil will follow, and people will enjoy it.

I will say though that sparring with others in martial arts and such is fun as long as no one is harmed. I don't know why, really.


1) Yes. 100%.

2) They turned away from God, so God turned them over to their sins.

a. Jealousy.

b. Cowardly vengeance and greed.

3) God hates him.

4) Yes. They receive punishment.

5) Not in any way; I think intimidation is consistent with violence.

6) Death; a justly deserved one. Only the man was held accountable.

7) If the divorcée's hate each other, they might scream, yell, and hurt each other emotionally.

8) He will not. The violence falls back on their own head.


1) Someone to repair the wall and stand in the gap.

2) Probably yes; violence is an accepted end in our society, yet no one will really admit it. We need to put away violence and oppression and do what is right.

3) Love is the better way.

4) Hang out with good people; bad company makes for a bad heart.

5) Not really...I could spout about how violence is the way of the weak or sinful, but at the end of the day, I pray God I never hurt anyone. Terrifying thought.

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Re: Moral Issues Facing The Church

Post by ccgr »

1. War, domestic, murder
2. Sin
racism - some people think this behavior is okay
frustration - some people don't know how to curb their anger
anger - some people can't control it
hatred - some people think this is okay too
lack of respect - pretty much a cultural norm
feelings of defeat -some people need encouragement
feelings of entitlement - some people need to be knocked down a couple of pegs
4. That's what happens when you kick God out of it
5. Group mentality - people are influenced by their peers to adopt certain behaviors. When people thinkt hat hatred and violence is okay, they have no problems doing it
6. Constantly belittling people with make them lower their self worth
7. To deface or take property that is not yours. Sometimes it's to make a statement.
8. It can be a form of power and control.
9. It can be a form of power.
10. It raises their ego.

1. Yes it is.
2. Sin.
a. jealousy
b. revenge
3. God detests violence
4. Yes, God will judge them
5. No, Yes
6. Death, the man
7. If there is no love in a marriage it should not exist. The absence of love is hate.
8. No, God will repay him

1. Someone to step up and fill the gap
2. I believe so. Execute judgement and justice.
3. Love and peace
4. Stay in good company
5. Keep your cool and have accountability partners if you're struggling with anger

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Re: Moral Issues Facing The Church

Post by Holly_Hamilton »

On a number of issues that are at odds with Christianity, in the debate we have lost our compassion and love for the lost.

Somehow, we have lost our witness and the world does not care what we think. Only, if we somehow could be more like Jesus. How would he spend time with and talk to folk about these issues?

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