Interesting but I think I'll pass...the Bible doesn't mention much about kissing before marriage. What do they do at the end of a date? Hug? Shake hands? Dang it, now I'm curious....
Re: Virgin Show about couple who don't even kiss until marri
Posted: Wed Jul 03, 2013 10:03 pm
by ChickenSoup
I can only imagine. Blegh
Re: Virgin Show about couples who don't even kiss until marr
Posted: Thu Jul 04, 2013 7:56 am
by ArchAngel
Sure sounds a lot like this show...
Re: Virgin Show about couples who don't even kiss until marr
Posted: Thu Jul 04, 2013 12:20 pm
by ccgr
yeah Hollywood is unoriginal
Re: Virgin Show about couples who don't even kiss until marr
Posted: Wed Jul 10, 2013 1:41 pm
by ArcticFox
And culture slips another notch as people who choose a high standard of self control are now held up as a spectacle.
Not saying I have a problem with pre-marital kissing, but you gotta admit it does set the bar high enough to ward off more temptation to go farther.
Re: Virgin Show about couples who don't even kiss until marr
Posted: Wed Jul 10, 2013 5:32 pm
by ArchAngel
That high bar comes with costs unseen by those who choose it. Is it healthy for a couple to show no physical affection (outside that which you'd show your parents) until they are already wholly committed to each other?
And don't think for one second there isn't shaming of couples who don't follow this standard. Not everybody would look down on others, but it happens. It's a huge strain on a couple, and a lot of pressure on each indvidual where they trade in their happiness for...
wait, it's not in the Bible? It doesn't say it anywhere? Holy crap, they did it because some church guy told them it was good.
I have only pity for them.
Re: Virgin Show about couples who don't even kiss until marr
Posted: Wed Jul 10, 2013 6:45 pm
by ArcticFox
ArchAngel wrote:That high bar comes with costs unseen by those who choose it. Is it healthy for a couple to show no physical affection (outside that which you'd show your parents) until they are already wholly committed to each other?
Is it unhealthy? Does a kiss on the lips extend your life expectancy? How are they harming themselves?
ArchAngel wrote:
I have only pity for them.
Me too, but not for the same reasons. I pity them because they're being held up for ridicule for making choices they have a perfect right to make.
Re: Virgin Show about couples who don't even kiss until marr
Posted: Wed Jul 10, 2013 8:11 pm
by ArchAngel
ArcticFox wrote:Is it unhealthy? Does a kiss on the lips extend your life expectancy? How are they harming themselves?
Absolutely it is healthy. Are you telling me that kissing isn't a healthy component of your relationship with your wife? That your relationship wouldn't suffer if it lacked physical intimacy?
ArcticFox wrote:Me too, but not for the same reasons. I pity them because they're being held up for ridicule for making choices they have a perfect right to make.
Oh, they have the right to make it.
Doesn't mean it's not a poor choice.
Re: Virgin Show about couples who don't even kiss until marr
Posted: Wed Jul 10, 2013 8:25 pm
by ChickenSoup
I agree wholeheartedly with ArchAngel. A lack of any physical intimacy is hugely detrimental to a relationship.
I once heard a ridiculous statement by a visiting pastor once that went along the lines of "if you'd be embarrassed to tell your grandmother, you shouldn't do it" as if that kind of logic had any kind of Biblical backing.
Re: Virgin Show about couples who don't even kiss until marr
Posted: Wed Jul 10, 2013 8:35 pm
by ArchAngel
Yeah, the grandmother argument falls apart on many, many levels.
I probably should clarify that I don't mean to ridicule these people, although I probably have. I feel bad for them, I disagree with them, but I shouldn't ridicule them.
Although, for the video I shown, I think it might deserve a little. That kiss really seems like it was intentionally done to show how "sexy" it is to save your first kiss for the altar. The first kiss can be a pretty special moment, the wedding is a very personal event, and I do find it ridiculous to use it as, and I use the term loosely, a political device or showmanship.
Re: Virgin Show about couples who don't even kiss until marr
Posted: Thu Jul 11, 2013 3:39 am
by Bruce_Campbell
That second video is just gross. But then, I posted it on this forum not long ago.
I think what worries me about these situations is that these people are putting marriage on a very high pedestal. It's like these people think that because they followed a strict set of guidelines before they were married, they expect their marriage to be sunshine and rainbows. And I also feel like they're making marriage all about sex, which is a toxic attitude.
Re: Virgin Show about couples who don't even kiss until marr
Posted: Thu Jul 11, 2013 6:48 pm
by ArcticFox
ArchAngel wrote:Absolutely it is healthy. Are you telling me that kissing isn't a healthy component of your relationship with your wife? That your relationship wouldn't suffer if it lacked physical intimacy?
That isn't what I asked. I asked if it's unhealty. What's the harm in waiting until marriage to take that step? I'm married to my wife so your last question doesn't apply.
ArchAngel wrote:
Oh, they have the right to make it.
Doesn't mean it's not a poor choice.
In your opinion, sir. Not in theirs.
ArchAngel wrote:
Although, for the video I shown, I think it might deserve a little. That kiss really seems like it was intentionally done to show how "sexy" it is to save your first kiss for the altar. The first kiss can be a pretty special moment, the wedding is a very personal event, and I do find it ridiculous to use it as, and I use the term loosely, a political device or showmanship.
I agree with you there.
Re: Virgin Show about couples who don't even kiss until marr
Posted: Thu Jul 11, 2013 8:13 pm
by ArchAngel
ArcticFox wrote:That isn't what I asked. I asked if it's unhealty. What's the harm in waiting until marriage to take that step? I'm married to my wife so your last question doesn't apply.
It's still a romantic relationship, and they are proceeding the development of it sans physical affection. So yes, I'm saying it's unhealthy.
And it's not like things magically change at the altar. You're still in a relationship and the rules still apply. Affection, trust, and respect are all still as important before and after.
ArcticFox wrote:In your opinion, sir. Not in theirs.
Well, yeah. That's why I'm saying it's a poor choice.
Re: Virgin Show about couples who don't even kiss until marr
Posted: Fri Jul 12, 2013 5:04 pm
by ArcticFox
ArchAngel wrote:It's still a romantic relationship, and they are proceeding the development of it sans physical affection. So yes, I'm saying it's unhealthy.
Did you know that kissing on the mouth in that way is a means of expression that has come and gone in cultural development? Ancient Egyptians would have been utterly bewildered by the practice. Not all cultures do it even today.
In the early 20th century, the anthropologist Ernest Crawley wrote that kissing is "a universal expression in the social life of the higher civilizations of the feelings of affection, love (sexual, parental, and filial), and veneration," although he subsequently found that "kissing on the lips was not to be found in much of the world." He noted that in Japanese society before the 20th century, there was no kissing "except as applied by a mother to her infant," while in Africa it was commonly observed that neither husbands and wives nor lovers kissed one another. However, kissing of children by their parents and kissing between lovers and married couples was common in Ancient Greece and Ancient Rome. Crawley concludes that, although kissing was prevalent in some form since historical times, it generally "received its chief development in Western culture." The kiss in Western societies has also been used in various religious and ceremonial acts, and has had a sacramental value.
According to Crawley, touch is "the mother of the senses," and the kiss was a tactile and specialized form of intimate contact. However, he notes that the act of kissing was very rare among cultures and the development of kissing was very late in Western agricultural civilizations. Yet even among agricultural civilizations, Crawley saw differences: while the kiss seems to have been unknown to ancient Egypt, it was well established in early Greece, Assyria, and India.
I guess there must be a lot of emotionally unhealthy people out there.
Re: Virgin Show about couples who don't even kiss until marr
Posted: Fri Jul 12, 2013 5:14 pm
by ArchAngel
But they aren't in those cultures, they are in ours. If there was another expression for physical intimacy for us, they'd abstain from that. The fact that they abstain from it all together shows that they do find it as a primary form of physical intimacy, and that's the end goal: to prohibit physical affection toward each other, and that's what I'm talking about.
Looking at kissing at that level is interesting, but completely irrelevant to the discussion.
