Christ Centered Gamer

DarthDapor wrote:

iamscott wrote:Please, Darth. Enlighten us as to how you see secular music.

ok here's my view of it...there's christian music...and there's secular music...

Christian music: involves God
Secular music: doesn't involve god

Hell: doesn't involve god

Secular music: hell

do I need to make that any clearer?

Are you sick? You're beginning to sound like HotReference. (Peanut butter rhinos! PEANUT BUTTER RHINOS!!!)

I was thinking the same thing Fred.

Fred1000000 wrote:

DarthDapor wrote:

iamscott wrote:Please, Darth. Enlighten us as to how you see secular music.

ok here's my view of it...there's christian music...and there's secular music...

Christian music: involves God
Secular music: doesn't involve god

Hell: doesn't involve god

Secular music: hell

do I need to make that any clearer?

Are you sick? You're beginning to sound like HotReference. (Peanut butter rhinos! PEANUT BUTTER RHINOS!!!)

Uhhh.... I'm thinking Fred's right here. I mean... that's flaky logic right there, Darth, sorry.

It's like saying...

Priests wear underwear, priests = Does involve God
Britney Spears doesn't, Britney = does not involve God

Hell = doesn't involve God

Going commando = hell

DarthDapor wrote:

iamscott wrote:Please, Darth. Enlighten us as to how you see secular music.

ok here's my view of it...there's christian music...and there's secular music...

Christian music: involves God
Secular music: doesn't involve god

Hell: doesn't involve god

Secular music: hell

do I need to make that any clearer?

Nope. But what is your opinion on music without lyrics? It's not like you could label that either Christian or secular.

(I just want to find out - you know, in case that LOTR soundtrack I'm listening to is going to destine me for hell...)

I listen to mostly Christian music. Yes, there is a lot of the same old same old sound in Christian music, but if you look take some time to look around there are some great bands.

My Fav bands
Relient K (they matured so much since their self-titled)
Switchfoot
Eisley (if you're into softer rock, this is a fantastic band)
Mute math (I know, they're technically mainstream, but the guys are Christians and the lyrics have many faith based topics)
Dead Poetic (looking for great hard rock/metal? Look no further than their cd "Vices")
Everyday Sunday (I'm normally not a fan of this genre, but Everyday Sunday retooled their sound and their latest offering is very good.)
Mae (The Everglow is way better than their latest one)
Jars of Clay (their Christmas album is fantastic. "Good Monsters" is great for people who like softer, reflective music)
Jeremy Casella (in part, he is an acoustic singer songwriter, but his latest album, "Recovery", has orchestral arrangements and some electronica mixed in to make it one of my fav albums)
David Crowder Band (C'mon, A Collision is fantastic. You know it, I know it. Fav worship music)
Wavorly (if you're into Panic at the Disco! and Fall Out Boy, these guys are great. I normally don't like this genre, but these guys have a good sound and thoughtful lyrics)

That's all for now.

ok, I guess I do need to make that one clearer....

First of all I'm going point out this verse here...

james Chapter 3 wrote:
1 My brethren, be not many masters, knowing that we shall receive the greater condemnation.
2 For in many things we offend all. If any man offend not in word, the same is a perfect man, and able also to bridle the whole body.
3 Behold, we put bits in the horses' mouths, that they may obey us; and we turn about their whole body.
4 Behold also the ships, which though they be so great, and are driven of fierce winds, yet are they turned about with a very small helm, whithersoever the governor listeth.
5 Even so the tongue is a little member, and boasteth great things. Behold, how great a matter a little fire kindleth!
6 And the tongue is a fire, a world of iniquity: so is the tongue among our members, that it defileth the whole body, and setteth on fire the course of nature; and it is set on fire of hell.
7 For every kind of beasts, and of birds, and of serpents, and of things in the sea, is tamed, and hath been tamed of mankind:
8 But the tongue can no man tame; it is an unruly evil, full of deadly poison.
9 Therewith bless we God, even the Father; and therewith curse we men, which are made after the similitude of God.
10 Out of the same mouth proceedeth blessing and cursing. My brethren, these things ought not so to be.
11 Doth a fountain send forth at the same place sweet water and bitter?
12 Can the fig tree, my brethren, bear olive berries? either a vine, figs? so can no fountain both yield salt water and fresh.
13 Who is a wise man and endued with knowledge among you? let him shew out of a good conversation his works with meekness of wisdom.
14 But if ye have bitter envying and strife in your hearts, glory not, and lie not against the truth.
15 This wisdom descendeth not from above, but is earthly, sensual, devilish.
16 For where envying and strife is, there is confusion and every evil work.
17 But the wisdom that is from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, and easy to be intreated, full of mercy and good fruits, without partiality, and without hypocrisy.
18 And the fruit of righteousness is sown in peace of them that make peace.

now I'm going to love to see you who call yourselves Christians, work your way out of this one...

so where to begin here...I guess I'll clear this out now. When James is talking about the tongue, he does NOT simply mean saying what we classify as "bad words." What is a "bad word" to God? Do you really think James is talking about specific words here?

To continue, when lyrics in a song are not praising God in one form or another, what is it doing? It obviously isn't helping things out here (verses 5, 11, 12, & 17). So then let's clarify again the modifiers James uses here to describe what the tongue causes, "defileth the whole body","setteth on fire the course of nature", ("set on fire of hell. ")those found in verse 6, "earthly", "sensual", "devilish" (15), "there is confusion and every evil work" (16), and "evil"(17).

Now that we've classified secular music as not praising God and therefore "evil" (verses 8, & 16). and I've underlined strife there to show you a definition according to dictionary.com

dictionary.com wrote:Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1) - Cite This Source - Share This
strife /straɪf/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[strahyf] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun
1. vigorous or bitter conflict, discord, or antagonism:

thus you cannot claim that is not what James is talking here...also I point out that he doesn't just say evil in that phrase. He says "every evil work".

James also says the tongue is a "a world of iniquity" (6), and here is the dictionary.com definition of that.

dictionary.com wrote:Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1) - Cite This Source - Share This
in·iq·ui·ty /ɪˈnɪkwɪti/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[i-nik-wi-tee] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun, plural -ties.
1. gross injustice or wickedness.
2. a violation of right or duty; wicked act; sin.

I didn't plan this by the way, but look what we have here....wickedness....sin (shouldn't that be enough?")

in the last two verse it talks about wisdom from God. Do you really think you'll find that in music that ignores him?

and Laz, in response to your comment about music without lyrics. You are trying to distract from the original purpose of what I said. Does this music claim to praise God, or curse him? neither? then how do you know? what was the music intended to do? What was intended to describe? Obviously the lotr soundtrack was intended to help describe an allegory of Christ so what does that tell you?

Another thing you should think about is what do the artists think about God? you can't have this both ways guys. I can draw in more scripture if you are still discontent, but only if I have to.

Please watch what you say, Darth. Keep the personal insults to a joking minimum.--iamscott

Honestly, you don't have to.

I still disagree with you, but only because I read that passage (and have always read that passage) quite differently. If that's what you get from it, great. But don't go around condemning other's personal choices by putting a modern context on a passage that could mean different things to different people. Explaining what you mean, and what you see, is one thing. Getting annoyed that no one sees the same is another.

A little angry, are we?

Darth, calm down. Whatever your getting mad over, it's probably not worth it.

However, Darth....We can tell that James was not being serious at all when he wrote that, as when translated...

Taming Teh Tung

1 Dont call urself taechr if yu aint a taechr cuz Ceiling Cat will be torkeed off @ u, k?2 We all skrew up in meny wayz. If any1 iz not skrewz up, he iz teh winrar n getz 2 keep all da cheezburgerz.

3 Wit 1 of da catnips we ken pwn teh whole cat.4 Even rele rele big catz.5 So ur tung iz like teh catnip.6 N teh catnip iz liek fier, n sets teh fiers of evul. It maekz teh good cat into teh bad cat, it sets teh cat on fier dat hurtz rele bad.

7 All kindz a aminulz r bein told wut 2 do by menz.8 But ur tongue iz not 1 of teh aminulz cuz it has poizon dat will pwn u.

9 We ken give teh catnip 2 Ceiling Cat, or we ken use it 2 curse teh manz who r pretty much teh same ting.10 Out of same cat comez catnip n a haerball.11 Ken both cookie n cheezburger come frum same plaec?12 Not.

2 Kind Of Smartness

13 Who r teh smart 1z among u? Let em show it by all dere humbel chezburgerz.14 But if u r jeluz of other d00ds cheezburgers, dont tell any1.15 Dis kind of "smart" iz not frum da Ceiling Cat, but frum teh urth.16 Wen u r jeluz of other d00ds cheezburgerz, u wil lose all ur cheezburgerz.

17 Teh smart dat comez from Ceiling Cat luvz it wen all catz r kewl wit each othr n evrybdy lisN 2 each othr n evry bdy shaer cookiez.18 Peacecats who sow in paec will raies a harvest of cheezburgerz.

I've no reason in responding to that one fred...if you feel like acting like an idiot then go ahead...

Please watch what you say, Darth. Keep the personal insults to a joking minimum.--iamscott

who did I insult? and what did I call them? (e.g. you've just proven my point)

iamscott wrote:Honestly, you don't have to.

I still disagree with you, but only because I read that passage (and have always read that passage) quite differently. If that's what you get from it, great. But don't go around condemning other's personal choices by putting a modern context on a passage that could mean different things to different people. Explaining what you mean, and what you see, is one thing. Getting annoyed that no one sees the same is another.

so in other words you can't really argue with my view so your going to use the "If I don't think it's bad then it's not" argument (don't think that's what you said? Check out the bold print up there). Do you really think that's going to hold up?

Not only that, but as christians we're suppose to be concerned with eachother's choices (I Corinthians 5:12-13). Like iron sharpening iron.

Now do you have anything to say about my last post?

I think Romans 14 can be of great use here.

"One man's faith allows him to eat everything, but another man, whose faith is weak, eats only vegetables. 3The man who eats everything must not look down on him who does not, and the man who does not eat everything must not condemn the man who does, for God has accepted him. 4Who are you to judge someone else's servant? To his own master he stands or falls. And he will stand, for the Lord is able to make him stand."

and

"So whatever you believe about these things keep between yourself and God. Blessed is the man who does not condemn himself by what he approves. 23But the man who has doubts is condemned if he eats, because his eating is not from faith; and everything that does not come from faith is sin."

If we are who we say we are then don't you think we would have asked for approval from God of what we are doing is right? I know I have. I feel that the music I listen to does not interfer with my relationship with God. It does not portray him in a bad way. So I feel it's okay for me to listen to. However, you may feel differently. So it doesn't make sense for you to judge me and try to convince me to change when I have already resolved the issue with God.

Darth wrote:who did I insult? and what did I call them? (e.g. you've just proven my point)

Your post was a bit rude, so, I guess you could say anyone who read it could have been insulted. Regardless, try to be more open minded in this kind of talk, and, as Scott already said, don't condemn others because they don't believe exactly how you do.

1st passage: Paul is talking about differences between young christians and old. If you read the fifth verse that is VERY clear, instead you seemed to have left it all out.....let me fill in the blanks...

5One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.

^Eh? Eh? I'm not forcing you to make a decision here guys.....I'm putting in my side of it. Something YOU asked for^

6He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.

Sounds pretty good doesn't it?

7For none of us liveth to himself, and no man dieth to himself.

8For whether we live, we live unto the Lord; and whether we die, we die unto the Lord: whether we live therefore, or die, we are the Lord's.

9For to this end Christ both died, and rose, and revived, that he might be Lord both of the dead and living.

10But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.

11For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.

12So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God.

13Let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge this rather, that no man put a stumblingblock or an occasion to fall in his brother's way.

14I know, and am persuaded by the Lord Jesus, that there is nothing unclean of itself: but to him that esteemeth any thing to be unclean, to him it is unclean.

15But if thy brother be grieved with thy meat, now walkest thou not charitably. Destroy not him with thy meat, for whom Christ died.

16Let not then your good be evil spoken of:

17For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.

18For he that in these things serveth Christ is acceptable to God, and approved of men.

19Let us therefore follow after the things which make for peace, and things wherewith one may edify another.

20For meat destroy not the work of God. All things indeed are pure; but it is evil for that man who eateth with offence.

21It is good neither to eat flesh, nor to drink wine, nor any thing whereby thy brother stumbleth, or is offended, or is made weak.

I'll thank you not to take it out of context next time. I also notice that you didn't answer to my James 3 post......can anyone argue against that or can we just say "All's well, it didn't end well?" I've no reason to keep this up if you'd rather try and excuse your reasons by pointing to scriptures that do not have any reference to this at all.

ohnolookout wrote: So it doesn't make sense for you to judge me and try to convince me to change when I have already resolved the issue with God.

So I'm still wrong even though I resolved the issue with God?

I'll thank you to not ignore a key part of my post next time. And that is not how I see that passage. "5One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind." that could very well mean people have different opinions (and they do) and others have the same.

"He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks." I see it as whatever that person does he does it for the Lord. I already gave you an example how I did that. I came before God and asked him if the music I was listening to was acceptable. And I felt no conviction at all to indicate that it isn't.

Darth, what I've got to say to you is this: the Bible can, and will, and always has been, interpreted in different ways. You took a passage, added a contextual spin to it, and then called us all wrong. In essence, you judged us because you felt justified to do so.

I could spin the passage in different ways. I could do a lot of things. But I don't. Because the important thing is not proving yourself right to others, but knowing that you're right inside and before God.

I'll concede that some of the music that I listen to does not praise God. But then, some of the movies that I watch don't, either. And some of the books that I read don't, either. That doesn't mean that they're bad. Not in my view.

I'm a sinner, just like you. I try my best, day in and day out, to please God. I have potential, just like you, to become something more. And I am working to fill that potential.

The fact is, Darth, we come from very different backgrounds. You seem to have come from a conservative, more legalistic home. My family was never that way. I was encouraged to listen to what I wanted to, to read what I wanted to, from an early age. To have choices. I didn't listen to more adult music until much later, and books I took my time with. I did so partially out of gauging myself, and partially out of respect to my parents. My parents were more cautious about movies, and so I didn't see the stuff that I was dying to see until much later. My mother taught me to have tolerance in all things. The idea was that I could learn more about the world, and then proceed to make my own decision to follow God. Which I have done.

I love Jesus and God, Darth. I want to spread the Word around through my own particular talents, the gifts that God gave me. If you don't agree with the way I go about something, tell me. If you don't like the things I do (such as listening to music that you don't agree with, watching a movie that you don't agree with, etc.), though, keep that to yourself. That's between me and God.