Christ Centered Gamer

FamilyFriendlyGaming wrote:I have been extremely busy with serving God, family and the day job as of late. Not able to devote the time to provide an appropriate response. First off I have to be blunt – I do not believe you want to rationally and civilly discuss this. If you did, you would not have started it with mocking the other person in such a manner. You expect to be treated with respect, but still have not grasped the Golden Rule. You treat others like dirt, and expect to be put on a pedestal. So you started it out bad. But I forgive your insults. In fact I celebrate them because you are treating me the way the prophets of old were treated. So you honor me by putting me in that category.

If I understand your stance it is this: “I worship the world, I love the world, and that draws me closer to God. I surround myself with rebellious attitudes, opinions, thoughts, and ideologies. Being around all of that rebelling against God brings me closer to Him.” Did I get that right? If I did, I have no idea how that logic works. I am of the mindset that the more time you spend in/with the things of God, the closer you become. The more time you spend in/with the things of the world the more you become like the world. So right there the foundation of your logic makes no sense to me. I need to have that explained.

What do I do? What have I done over and over again? I point people to God. Why does pointing people to God cause such an uproar? Why is there such hatred and anger against someone who says: “include God in all that you do.” How exactly is that judging any of you? Since that is the response I have seen here. I still do not follow the logic. God’s law (aka standard) is written on the hearts of all mankind. Unless we have been turned over to our sinful desires.

I really do not comprehend the desire to spend time with the most vile, evil, and wicked games of the industry; while ignoring the good, clean, uplifting, and wholesome ones. How does that faithfully follow Philippians 4:8? How does mocking the godly games draw anyone closer to God? If you want to actually discuss this rationally then please explain it to me. There has to be theology that can back it up right? I am not mocking, I am trying to understand. Because I use Bible verses to back up my opinions.

Look I do not have all the answers. I have prayed about it. So I would like to know what Biblically backing you have for your stance. And none of the attacking the person you are debating. The person has nothing to do with it. The ideas, concepts and theology is what is being discussed. Please keep it in that realm.

I am not attacking, or judging any of you. You make your choices and God will judge all of us for the choices we all make. I merely point people to God, and ask them to consider including Him in all they do. Does that really deserve harsh treatment?

Related scriptures:
1 John 2:16-17
Philippians 4:8
Isaiah 5:20
Matthew 5:11-12

This is probably the most condescending post I've ever read

The more time you spend in/with the things of the world the more you become like the world.

This is the heart of the matter here, I think.

You take not being of the world one step further and say not to be in the things of the world. First off, it does not make anyone holy. The Bible doesn't say the fruit of the Spirit are not having random sex, becoming drunk, etc. It says not to do those things, but it also says to replace them with patience, kindness, etc. The Bible calls these things the fruit of the Spirit. The absence of playing a violent video game does not make one holy. The playing of a non-violent game is also not making someone holy. I could play Tetris all day long, but it would not make me holier. All it would do is make me awesome at making sure everything fits as neat as possible in a confined space.

You want to point people to God? Live it. As in, your actions and deeds must reflect God. That includes on here. In my time here (which spans almost six years), I haven't seen an attitude from you that corrects, uplifts, encourages others. All I've seen is a condescending attitude that does not respect the other person. You want to stay away from the majority of games the other person plays? Fine. You want to convince others to do the same? Fine. This is America, after all.

Live it. Because if your actions don't match your words, then your words mean nothing.

FamilyFriendlyGaming wrote:I have been extremely busy with serving God, family and the day job as of late. Not able to devote the time to provide an appropriate response. First off I have to be blunt – I do not believe you want to rationally and civilly discuss this. If you did, you would not have started it with mocking the other person in such a manner. You expect to be treated with respect, but still have not grasped the Golden Rule. You treat others like dirt, and expect to be put on a pedestal. So you started it out bad. But I forgive your insults. In fact I celebrate them because you are treating me the way the prophets of old were treated. So you honor me by putting me in that category.

If I understand your stance it is this: “I worship the world, I love the world, and that draws me closer to God. I surround myself with rebellious attitudes, opinions, thoughts, and ideologies. Being around all of that rebelling against God brings me closer to Him.” Did I get that right? If I did, I have no idea how that logic works. I am of the mindset that the more time you spend in/with the things of God, the closer you become. The more time you spend in/with the things of the world the more you become like the world. So right there the foundation of your logic makes no sense to me. I need to have that explained.

What do I do? What have I done over and over again? I point people to God. Why does pointing people to God cause such an uproar? Why is there such hatred and anger against someone who says: “include God in all that you do.” How exactly is that judging any of you? Since that is the response I have seen here. I still do not follow the logic. God’s law (aka standard) is written on the hearts of all mankind. Unless we have been turned over to our sinful desires.

I really do not comprehend the desire to spend time with the most vile, evil, and wicked games of the industry; while ignoring the good, clean, uplifting, and wholesome ones. How does that faithfully follow Philippians 4:8? How does mocking the godly games draw anyone closer to God? If you want to actually discuss this rationally then please explain it to me. There has to be theology that can back it up right? I am not mocking, I am trying to understand. Because I use Bible verses to back up my opinions.

Look I do not have all the answers. I have prayed about it. So I would like to know what Biblically backing you have for your stance. And none of the attacking the person you are debating. The person has nothing to do with it. The ideas, concepts and theology is what is being discussed. Please keep it in that realm.

I am not attacking, or judging any of you. You make your choices and God will judge all of us for the choices we all make. I merely point people to God, and ask them to consider including Him in all they do. Does that really deserve harsh treatment?

Related scriptures:
1 John 2:16-17
Philippians 4:8
Isaiah 5:20
Matthew 5:11-12

I understood that that initial post would be considered an attack on you if I didn't elaborate, which lead to the second post. That explained my position a little better, I think, and absolutely was not an attack on you.

That said, I have never on this site - or anywhere else - stated that I worship the world, that I love the world, and so on, because... it's not true. Yet there's this stance that I've seen you take, time and again, acting like anyone who doesn't share your beliefs (or who you personally doubt the faith of) is a wolf in sheep's clothing. Anything they say relating to games automatically disqualifies them from being a Christian. The irony - and this is, to me, tragic - is that this stance, and the way it's presented (and perhaps that most of all) actively disengages others and actually makes it hard to say, "Yes, I'm a Christian; yes, I am in fellowship with that man."

Because Paul, here's the thing: this has everything to do with the person you're talking to or the person I'm talking to. This doesn't go back to God or the games (or maybe it does). You have had what seems to be a personal vendetta against me and others who you have doubted on this site for years, especially if you perceive them to be in power. Messaging the staff to attempt to petition them to sway your way, and then acting the way you do is a recipe for nothing happening and the foundation for resentment. I'll be honest: when I was a admin, I groaned when I saw another one of your "reports" on the site. And that had nothing to do with you personally, but it had everything to do with your actions and the way you related to others.

So what if I don't agree with your interpretation of things? I'm not saying I'm in the right or in the wrong here, but I do not believe that playing games with content that you don't agree with - or that I might find questionable in the least - is the incorrect thing to do. I don't believe it's the only way to go about things, but it's the way I choose to go about things. The games that I've heard you mention, the ones that you've described as "good" or "godly" or both... those are not the types of games that I want to play, and honestly, if I did play them, I would probably stop gaming altogether. They remove what I love about the medium, for the most part. But that's okay! It just means that they're not for me. It doesn't mean that they're not for you, or that another audience wouldn't find them edifying. I would rather enjoy the newest Zelda and take what it offers as mythology than I would ignore that it even exists or downcry the fact that people are playing it. That's my choice.

You mention that you're not judging people, that you're simply pointing people to God. How I wish that were the case. I have literally never seen you do that, Paul. Never. In the post that you just wrote, you judged me:

FFG wrote:You expect to be treated with respect, but still have not grasped the Golden Rule. You treat others like dirt, and expect to be put on a pedestal.

And then, you turned around and compared yourself to Isaiah. That's the kind of stuff that aggravates me, and that I actually find disgusting. It's not only condescending, it's ego-centric. It's what I was talking about in that post that you seem to strenuously disagree with.

I honestly don't have time to post any Scripture right now because I have to go to work, but I will say that I don't see much use in throwing Bible passages at another simply because you disagree with them or their stance, especially when it has little to do with theology and more roots in what seems like a personality clash or personal issues going back years. But that's just me. I probably won't come back and add Scripture, either, though if someone wants to, feel free. That's not having anything to do with my level of commitment to God, though I'm reasonably sure that it will be taken that way shortly after I post this.

Truthseeker wrote:For some reason when I read the phrase "God's standard" for what makes a video game a classic, the image that immediately came to my mind was God beating Ikaruga and only dying once. I'm not trying to be offensive or poke fun, but for some reason the mental image needed sharing.

ROFL

I dunno if that would be offensive or not... I found it funny. I guess it's like playing Dungeons & Dragons and saying "Jesus saves.. and takes half damage."

In response to FFG...

While I don't share FFG's standard for what games I'll play, I didn't find his post to be condescending like people are accusing him of. I read it as "This is the standard I keep because I feel it's what God wants me to do." I'm not sensing any "I'm better than you" attitude from it.

Maybe I see it this way because I've been in a similar position... On the nasty forum I used to be on, I once called said that as a Christian, I believed in a higher moral standard than what we usually see around us. Man, people went NUTS. I had people calling me arrogant, saying I was being condescending, saying I was putting myself on a pedestal, etc... And no matter how hard I tried, I couldn't get them to understand that all I meant was that the moral standard set forth in Scripture is higher, more strict, more specific than what people generally adhere to. I wasn't trying to say I was better than them or even to criticize them. Apparently my error was to say that chastity represented a higher moral standard than fornicating. Perish the thought...

So when I see FFG talking about the standard he follows for his gaming, and then asking others for their Biblical backing for their own standard, I see him in the same boat, and frankly I'd be very interested in how people answer THAT challenge, rather than beating him up.

For my part, I choose my games based on whether or not they allow me to be who God would want me to be. In other words, a game like GTA is not an option for me because in order to win the game you HAVE to commit crime. You HAVE to violate the 10 Commandments. You HAVE to ignore the Golden Rule. If I can't behave like a Christian in game, then I won't play the game. Can Jack Shepherd in Mass Effect be a Christian? Yes. So I play the game. You can CHOOSE not to be, but it's a choice. I can choose to play like a Christian. Can Master Chief in Halo be a Christian? Yes. I'd play Halo. Could Batman be a Christian? Yes. So I play Arkham Asylum.

So the Scriptural references that set the standard? The same ones that set the standard for my day to day life.

This little philosophy runs into trouble with games like Assassin's Creed or Oblivion, but I don' believe in one size fits all solutions anyway, and sometimes you have to use your discernment on a case by case basis.

All - The concepts are what are interesting to me. I really want to discuss this issue in a civil, polite, and respectful manner. Thus far I have tip toed through the tulips working diligently to describe the issue, frame a position, and avoid personal attacks on anyone in particular.

Drewsov - can you please stick to the issues and not the personal stuff? All they do is de-rail the discussion. If I misunderstood your stance then please explain it. Because that is how I understand your explanation of why you seek out the extreme entertainments. Are you using knowledge in those to reach people for Christ? I have met fellow believers who go to bars and minister to people. I know other believers who think that is horrible. I see it as another part of the body of Christ. Why pick those games over ones with good content? What do they give you? Is it an attitude on your part?

Drewsov – the reference to prophets of old had to do with what Jesus said on the sermon on the mount. It referenced the verse in Matthew. The Isaiah verse referenced calling good things evil, and evil things good. That is how those two verses were connected to my post. I have given you a clean slate. I am only discussing what you have said in this thread. I have no interest in keeping grudges. Let’s talk about the concepts, and ideas. And its okay if we disagree on something. I told Chickensoup earlier we were going to have to agree to disagree.

All,
Tim Tebow really showed us all something this year. No matter how you feel about football and the NFL, we can all learn some fascinating things from Tim Tebow. He glorifies God in all of his successes. For those that have read FFG for some time know that I have done that in terms of successes there. I point to God all the time. The only way anyone could make the false accusation that I don’t do that, is if they are not reading it.

Something dawned on me in prayer recently. I give God glory and praise for all my daily job successes, all of my FFG successes, all of the blessings in my family. Yet I don’t give God glory when I win in video games. This is an area I know now that I need to work on. Good sportsmanship when losing is one thing, but what about giving God the glory when we win? It was like a light bulb moment.

I felt pretty stupid that I had not thought of it before. Maybe God revealed it to me, and I was not ready for it – before that time. Maybe I was too focused on other things. Again I don’t know everything. I am just happy to know anything. J The point is I am still a work in progress, and I do work on it.

Tim Tebow showed me some other interesting things. He was raised in a home school environment. Many would describe his upbringing as sheltered. To me it interesting how bold he is for God where he was raised with few worldly influences. Does that prove my theory on influences? Nope. It is evidence, and evidence that I put forth for the civil and polite discussion.

There are many in the media who lashed out against Tim Tebow. What did he do wrong? Why such venom against him? He gave God glory, and pointed people to God. We know the Holy Spirit convicts people. I believe that is why the venom comes out. Stephen was martyred for the same thing. Oh if I could be half of the believer Stephen was/is. If I could be half as bold, and half as faithful.

I have other reasons for avoiding the ‘M’ rated games. I find the violence boring.

Yes we generally ignore the ‘M’ rated games at FFG. Generally. There have been a few that have received light coverage. Why? Why don’t we cover them like the rest of the gaming media? I believe they get enough exposure. At the same time there are clean games that are ignored. I still hear from people: “They actually make ‘EC’ games?” Yes they make EC rated games. We cover them because the rest of the gaming media ignores them. We want to bring some semblance of balance. And obviously education since too many gamers think they are not being made. There already is a gross imbalance towards the macabre and morbid in the industry. At least in terms of coverage.

I worry we pushed the envelope too far at FFG by covering some of the fighting games. We debated back and forth about a certain Zumba Fitness Rush video. Too much cleavage? But it is an exercise game where people can improve their health. There are things we do that I am not 100% comfortable with. We have reviews of games I would personally never touch. They point to good things in those games. I allow it. I let that through. I understand the different opinions on it even when I disagree. It can be a real struggle sometimes - seeking God's will for those situations. I understand both arguments and constantly want to find which is right for which product.

I do not comprehend how my choosing to leave those games alone warrants anger from anyone. I do not understand how that is judging anyone here. Have I not been clear that your choices are between you and God? I might do things in other areas of life you would never consider doing. And you might think they are horrible. Know what? That is your opinion, and I am fine with you having it.

ArcticFox,
I want to thank you for your comprehension and understanding. That challenge is very intense, and it will be interesting who (besides who) takes it on. I also appreciate you explaining the standard you use. Could you please elaborate in the games you mentioned how you play as a Christian inside them? For me your post was very informational, educational, and engaging.

It was also slightly depressing in one aspect. Do you think they will just continue to attack me? In your past experience did you just have to give up? Did it eventually feel like throwing pearls to pigs? Did you dust off your cloak and leave? Did you wind up reaching any of them?

You know sometimes I wonder if the Amish got it right. I have pondered that concept for years.

Ccgr,
You are correct that those of us here put the line down at different points. This one will not cross this line, and that one will not cross a line somewhere else on the spectrum. The world is constantly pushing the envelope, and moving what is allowed inside certain descriptors. When it comes to your personal line – do you keep it in one spot or do you shift it one direction or the other? And if you move it, what criteria do you use to make the shift?

Drew,
Let me see if I understand your last post. “You interpret things differently. So if a game like Zelda teaches worship of a goddess, and brow beats the players into that religious practice – you say its mythology. Not real, and the teachings in this game cause no harm.” Is that an accurate comprehension of your stance? And this is where we will have to agree to disagree. I know from personal experiences, and from interactions with thousands of people it does have an impact.

Without going into politics – let me ask you a question. Do you believe in pre-emptive strikes? If memory serves you were against the United States using them when Bush was president. If my memory is wrong, please correct me on that. What do most first person shooters teach? How are you most successful in most FPS’s? Get them before they get you. Isn’t that the way to be most successful in a FPS? If you know a better way please tell me. Getting them before they get you is a pre-emptive strike. If you are against it in the real world, shouldn’t you be against doing it in a video game? If not, why not?

Please bear with me for a moment. If voters practice pre-emptive strikes over and over again in a video game, and then someone in the real world suggests it – wouldn’t they be supportive? Can you see how FPS’s could have impacted public opinion? How games can be used to influence the populace? Maybe not you, but others. What about weak brother/sisters in Christ? What if they backslide because you tell them XYZ game is good? And it causes them to fall away. This is on my mind all the time, because it is such a dangerous thing. We have power, and others look up to us.

I need to apologize because I do not always remember that everyone does not have access to all the information, developers, publishers, artists, actors, etc. that God has blessed me with. I hear from people in the industry all the time how they want to change public opinion, raise awareness, and influence people. I remember one game about bees, and the company telling me they were concerned about the bees dying. They were working on this game to move people to action on that issue. They understand the power they wield with a game.

I am not sounding an alarm. Nor do I think all lessons in games are bad. I believe many are good. I recently read a press release on raising awareness concerning fresh water. Awesome! The bees thing, cool! I guess the point, if I am making any point at all, is the creators of these games are working to influence all of us. Whether it is by design or not, they put in their concepts, ideas, beliefs, standards, and teachings.

My personal preference (whenever possible) is to find games that reinforce, support, and agree with the Word of God. I was singing this praise and worship song recently at church. I don’t know how many times we sang this song. It gave me a glimpse of what worshipping God could be like in heaven. It dawned on me that I could literally sing that one song (praising God) for years, and I would be content.

Drewsov,
Do you notice something I am doing? I keep asking you if my understanding of your posts are accurate. Do you know why? We have communication issues. You type words, and I read them. The words you use mean one thing to me, and mean something completely different to you. I can see from your responses that the words I am using mean one thing to me, and something completely different to you. Hence our communication issues. Aside from identifying the problem, I have no solutions.

ohnolookout,
Let me see if I have this straight. You are saying: “after reading 55 issues of Family Friendly Gaming, reading 23 issues of Wydcard’s WAY, reading editorials on the website for close to seven years, interviewing neighbors, pastors, hundreds of PR firms, hundreds of developers, hundreds of publishers, CGDC members, and family members – you don’t see it?” Have you read my posts talking about good games with good content? There should be a few around like Kinectimals now with Bears. Bananas Comedy post – did you read that one? Have you noticed the debates between ArcticFox and myself?

I would definitely agree with you that replacing games with bad content with good ones is only a small step in the right direction. If someone played Tetris all day long I would ask why? I might ask how much time did they give God that day? Was there something to how they choose to spend their day that can or will be used for the Kingdom of God? Did they live that day for self? There are Christian games on the market. Cheryl made one. It’s fun too. If you need help finding Christian games I would more than happy to provide links for you. I am sure there are others here who would happily assist you in that endeavor.

All,
I apologize for how scattered this is. I actually wrote this at different times while waiting for programs to finish running.

FamilyFriendlyGaming wrote:
I have other reasons for avoiding the ‘M’ rated games. I find the violence boring.

Yes we generally ignore the ‘M’ rated games at FFG. Generally. There have been a few that have received light coverage. Why? Why don’t we cover them like the rest of the gaming media? I believe they get enough exposure. At the same time there are clean games that are ignored. I still hear from people: “They actually make ‘EC’ games?” Yes they make EC rated games. We cover them because the rest of the gaming media ignores them. We want to bring some semblance of balance. And obviously education since too many gamers think they are not being made. There already is a gross imbalance towards the macabre and morbid in the industry. At least in terms of coverage.

I understand that viewpoint (and I respect it) but I feel it's important that we tell other people about M-rated games. Not to recommend them necessarily, but so people know what content is in them. There are plenty of M-rated games that aren't nearly as bad as we think they are. There are also many that are much worse. Somebody needs to show them which is which.

Nate DaZombie wrote:

FamilyFriendlyGaming wrote:
I have other reasons for avoiding the ‘M’ rated games. I find the violence boring.

Yes we generally ignore the ‘M’ rated games at FFG. Generally. There have been a few that have received light coverage. Why? Why don’t we cover them like the rest of the gaming media? I believe they get enough exposure. At the same time there are clean games that are ignored. I still hear from people: “They actually make ‘EC’ games?” Yes they make EC rated games. We cover them because the rest of the gaming media ignores them. We want to bring some semblance of balance. And obviously education since too many gamers think they are not being made. There already is a gross imbalance towards the macabre and morbid in the industry. At least in terms of coverage.

I understand that viewpoint (and I respect it) but I feel it's important that we tell other people about M-rated games. Not to recommend them necessarily, but so people know what content is in them. There are plenty of M-rated games that aren't nearly as bad as we think they are. There are also many that are much worse. Somebody needs to show them which is which.

'There are plenty of M-rated games that aren't nearly as bad as we think they are' <--Do you have some games in mind?

do you keep it in one spot or do you shift it one direction or the other? And if you move it, what criteria do you use to make the shift?

For the most part I'd have to say no. If a game still has pentagrams in it, I'll put it down and never go back. (Rarely do I play any game after I review it) After writing my review of Binding of Isaac I have not played it since. If there was a way to remove it from Steam, I would. :\ I don't play overly sexualized games, notice that we don't have a Duke Nukem Forever review on the site. I have not bothered playing more of the SIms series after they sexualized it. I'll admit that I have been tempted to pick up sworn off games that were really cheap but I have not succumbed to that temptation since I don't want to back down on my convictions. I still have not bought or played Mass Effect because of the homosexual love scene that's available. Skyrim handled love and marriage differently. You could marry whatever gender or race but there are no love or kissing scenes whatsoever. To me that says that they leave it open ended and don't make a big deal of it wasting time and resources to rendering that rubbish.

FamilyFriendlyGaming wrote:

Nate DaZombie wrote:

FamilyFriendlyGaming wrote:
I have other reasons for avoiding the ‘M’ rated games. I find the violence boring.

Yes we generally ignore the ‘M’ rated games at FFG. Generally. There have been a few that have received light coverage. Why? Why don’t we cover them like the rest of the gaming media? I believe they get enough exposure. At the same time there are clean games that are ignored. I still hear from people: “They actually make ‘EC’ games?” Yes they make EC rated games. We cover them because the rest of the gaming media ignores them. We want to bring some semblance of balance. And obviously education since too many gamers think they are not being made. There already is a gross imbalance towards the macabre and morbid in the industry. At least in terms of coverage.

I understand that viewpoint (and I respect it) but I feel it's important that we tell other people about M-rated games. Not to recommend them necessarily, but so people know what content is in them. There are plenty of M-rated games that aren't nearly as bad as we think they are. There are also many that are much worse. Somebody needs to show them which is which.

'There are plenty of M-rated games that aren't nearly as bad as we think they are' <--Do you have some games in mind?

Games like halo come in mind for that.

And I think mature games do affect people, just in different ways. Some person may play something and it will screw them up psychologically, and some other person might play it and think "Wow, this is stupid". Anyway thats what I think about things like that. One thing that affects me in games is language actually. I've learned to control but when i played Gears of War the first time I actually found myself slipping a few times when I never did.

But things like violence in games doesn't bother me at all. I know some people say i'm desensitized, and I guess i am to digital violence because i can tell it's so not real. I've seen real dead bodies and mutilated people and the real thing freaked me out so much that i couldn't sleep for a month and a half. Anyway thats my 2 cents on the whole content thing.

FamilyFriendlyGaming wrote: I understand the different opinions on it even when I disagree.

Sooo then you wouldn't consider their opinion to be 'of the world' because you disagree with them?

What do they have that we don't?

FamilyFriendlyGaming wrote:

Nate DaZombie wrote:

FamilyFriendlyGaming wrote:
I have other reasons for avoiding the ‘M’ rated games. I find the violence boring.

Yes we generally ignore the ‘M’ rated games at FFG. Generally. There have been a few that have received light coverage. Why? Why don’t we cover them like the rest of the gaming media? I believe they get enough exposure. At the same time there are clean games that are ignored. I still hear from people: “They actually make ‘EC’ games?” Yes they make EC rated games. We cover them because the rest of the gaming media ignores them. We want to bring some semblance of balance. And obviously education since too many gamers think they are not being made. There already is a gross imbalance towards the macabre and morbid in the industry. At least in terms of coverage.

I understand that viewpoint (and I respect it) but I feel it's important that we tell other people about M-rated games. Not to recommend them necessarily, but so people know what content is in them. There are plenty of M-rated games that aren't nearly as bad as we think they are. There are also many that are much worse. Somebody needs to show them which is which.

'There are plenty of M-rated games that aren't nearly as bad as we think they are' <--Do you have some games in mind?

like halo and both perfect dark games. There really are some M-rated games out there that I think most Christian gamers would be okay with.

wow, this went from "Favourite Game Classics" to "What games can a Christian play?" > that's cool, but fascinating to see the conversation evolve. I'd like to add to both conversations -

Conversation #1 - The only downside is that when I mentioned what I considered classics (on pg. 3 I think), the debate had already morphing into the new one. Anybody want to read my list and comment?

Conversation #2 - I like to avoid games that force my character to make moral decisions and actions that I couldn't in real life, based on my Christian beliefs. I guess I just identify with the game's character too much! I realize that this may not be the same for all Christian gamers. Like movies, I get right into it, like I'm there. And because of that, I have to be careful what I watch. I remember when I was laid up in bed for 3 days (surgery), I noticed my bro-in-law had the movie Scream; I hadn't seen it and plenty of people I knew (non-Christian & Christians) said they found it hilarious. I was horrified and mortified throughout the whole thing - I wept during the credits, thinking, "How can people think up this stuff? What is wrong with the world?!"
Anyway, back to games, I think guys like Drew (and correct me if I'm wrong) are able to play a game like GTA or Binding of Isaac and remain detached emotionally, psychologically and spiritually from them. I would still advise every Christian to avoid those games, but have to trust him to make the right decision for himself.
Here's a thought for you to consider (and this may go against what I just wrote), how would you feel if your Pastor was playing these games? Or if an elder in the church was? That would still concern me.....I guess we have to look at the fruits, right? If the Pastor or Elder were an upright person, obviously filled with the Holy Spirit, exuding a Christ-like nature and are clearly putting God 1st in their lives, I guess their personal media choices probably not bother me.

FamilyFriendlyGaming wrote: I want to thank you for your comprehension and understanding. That challenge is very intense, and it will be interesting who (besides who) takes it on. I also appreciate you explaining the standard you use. Could you please elaborate in the games you mentioned how you play as a Christian inside them? For me your post was very informational, educational, and engaging.

You're quite welcome.

An example would be Mass Effect. Since none of the story elements require the player to behave in a manner that's inconsistent with the Gospel, and since it's a role-playing game, one can play the game as if the main character were a Christian. Of course, it's possible to choose a very different path, but it's a choice, not a necessity. Shephard can choose to be forgiving, or he can execute a wayward prisoner. He can choose kindness or cruelty. He can respect authority or he can snub it. One can make choices that are consistent with the Gospel the whole way.

What bugs me is when, in a game, you have no choice but to commit evil, or allow it to happen. The airport scene in MW2 is an example. I wanted to stop the terrorists, but you can't complete the stage that way. All you can so is choose to skip the scene altogether, which is better than nothing.

FamilyFriendlyGaming wrote: It was also slightly depressing in one aspect. Do you think they will just continue to attack me? In your past experience did you just have to give up? Did it eventually feel like throwing pearls to pigs? Did you dust off your cloak and leave? Did you wind up reaching any of them?

People will perceive exactly what they want to perceive. In my case, no I never got through because once they decided I was just being a self-righteous judgmental religious zealot, that was locked in and no words of mine were going to shift it. They wanted to believe that of me, so they believed it. Period. People around here are generally more reasonable than the bunch I was describing, so your mileage may vary.

FamilyFriendlyGaming wrote: You know sometimes I wonder if the Amish got it right. I have pondered that concept for years.

Maybe... but they do have that thing where young adults can go out and experience worldliness before coming home and buckling down...

ccgr wrote:

do you keep it in one spot or do you shift it one direction or the other? And if you move it, what criteria do you use to make the shift?

For the most part I'd have to say no. If a game still has pentagrams in it, I'll put it down and never go back. (Rarely do I play any game after I review it) After writing my review of Binding of Isaac I have not played it since. If there was a way to remove it from Steam, I would. :\ I don't play overly sexualized games, notice that we don't have a Duke Nukem Forever review on the site. I have not bothered playing more of the SIms series after they sexualized it. I'll admit that I have been tempted to pick up sworn off games that were really cheap but I have not succumbed to that temptation since I don't want to back down on my convictions. I still have not bought or played Mass Effect because of the homosexual love scene that's available. Skyrim handled love and marriage differently. You could marry whatever gender or race but there are no love or kissing scenes whatsoever. To me that says that they leave it open ended and don't make a big deal of it wasting time and resources to rendering that rubbish.

Your post reminds me of some people I met some years back who refuse to play games that have magic in it. They draw the line there. I gave up on Steam working long ago. It conflicted with other software and messed up more than one machine. So whenever we get offered a game on Steam, I tell them we can't get that software does not play nice with others.

TheWampaKing wrote: Games like halo come in mind for that.

And I think mature games do affect people, just in different ways. Some person may play something and it will screw them up psychologically, and some other person might play it and think "Wow, this is stupid". Anyway thats what I think about things like that. One thing that affects me in games is language actually. I've learned to control but when i played Gears of War the first time I actually found myself slipping a few times when I never did.

But things like violence in games doesn't bother me at all. I know some people say i'm desensitized, and I guess i am to digital violence because i can tell it's so not real. I've seen real dead bodies and mutilated people and the real thing freaked me out so much that i couldn't sleep for a month and a half. Anyway thats my 2 cents on the whole content thing.

What in your mind makes Halo good for a Christian? I ask because I look at Halo and I see this:
1. Do unto others before they do unto you - the opposite teaching of the Holy Bible.
2. Get revenge on your enemies - the opposite teaching of the Holy Bible.
3. The religious leadership is oppressive and evil. You must destroy them. - debatable on where the Holy Bible falls on that one. There are verses about letting God take care of the evil, and there are verses where some religious leaders are shown as bad.
What am I missing about Halo? Where is it reinforcing the teachings of the Holy Bible?

jester747 wrote:

FamilyFriendlyGaming wrote: I understand the different opinions on it even when I disagree.

Sooo then you wouldn't consider their opinion to be 'of the world' because you disagree with them?

What do they have that we don't?

No because their opinion is to show the world how bad the 'M' rated games are. To add balance to all those praising them, and ignoring the bad content in them.

Nate DaZombie,
Same questions to you that I asked TheWampaKing. I have serious fundamental issues with Halo. And I am a Christian. I am trying to find out why some fellow believers like that game.

bgpablo,
Sorry this happened.

It is funny you should mention the pastor thing. Our pastor had a sermon about how bad immorality has gotten in America, and how the church has the same percentages. He went over 1 Kings 11:1-11. This is where King Solomon (the wisest man alive) married all these foreign women. They influenced him and turned his heart from God to false idols. Now it took many years for the influence of these foreign ideas to move him from God to false idols. The thing I came away with is even the wisest man alive was not immune to being influenced by things of the world. A man who knew better, but made the wrong choices anyway. Why did he do it? Can we learn from him? Or are we doomed to the same fate? God told him what would happen if he did it, and he did it anyways. That alone astounds me. He thought with the wrong head with a thousand women.
Sorry got off track again. I do that sometimes.

ArcticFox,
I hear you on the choice. I am way more lenient on a game that allows me to avoid violence (Batman Arkham Asylum for example) than if it forces me to use violence. Which in the second case is also parts of Batman Arkham Asylum. I have always said that it takes more skill to go through a game by refraining to use violence than to use it. Try it with any Mario game. We have to on the bosses in most cases, but try to avoid violence in an entire level. Much more difficult and it shows someone who is a better gamer. I think sometimes developers throw it in there out of laziness, and we gamers have not demanded better.

*hands ArcticFox a cookie* heres to hoping my mileage is better.

*lol* I am sure I have experienced enough of it in my lifetime. I also know its not my cross to bear. I am sure I romanticize the Amish way of life. I am sure it is more difficult than it looks. If I wore a hat, I would tip it to them.

FamilyFriendlyGaming wrote:

TheWampaKing wrote: Games like halo come in mind for that.

And I think mature games do affect people, just in different ways. Some person may play something and it will screw them up psychologically, and some other person might play it and think "Wow, this is stupid". Anyway thats what I think about things like that. One thing that affects me in games is language actually. I've learned to control but when i played Gears of War the first time I actually found myself slipping a few times when I never did.

But things like violence in games doesn't bother me at all. I know some people say i'm desensitized, and I guess i am to digital violence because i can tell it's so not real. I've seen real dead bodies and mutilated people and the real thing freaked me out so much that i couldn't sleep for a month and a half. Anyway thats my 2 cents on the whole content thing.

What in your mind makes Halo good for a Christian? I ask because I look at Halo and I see this:
1. Do unto others before they do unto you - the opposite teaching of the Holy Bible.
2. Get revenge on your enemies - the opposite teaching of the Holy Bible.
3. The religious leadership is oppressive and evil. You must destroy them. - debatable on where the Holy Bible falls on that one. There are verses about letting God take care of the evil, and there are verses where some religious leaders are shown as bad.
What am I missing about Halo? Where is it reinforcing the teachings of the Holy Bible?

I really don't want to go into this too much, but I can't ignore this. I love Halo, and these points are stretching it just a tad. For one, Christians are called to fight in many different places in the Bible. Killing in self-defense or in wartime is something that was never condemned in the Bible. It's like the passage in Luke 6 when Jesus heals the man's crippled hand on a sabbath. That's a bit of a stretch, I know, but it has similar meaning. Stopping a tyrannical genocide is correct in this instance.
I have no idea what instance you're referring to in your second point. I've played through all the Halos, and you are always fighting to protect, not avenge. This also coincides with my first point. Do you think we were wrong when we retaliated against Jihad after 9-11? I obviously don't want to change the argument, but think about it.
As for your third point, you don't think God uses men to bring down nations? Out of all the nations that have come and gone, only of a few were ended by God actually sending angels (or himself) from Heaven. I believe God raises up evil men and heads of religious organizations, but he also raises men who will oppose them. Martin Luther, Winston Churchill, and practically all of the Judges. Moses left Egypt basically stripped and naked for wealth, organics, and culture. Jesus also opposed the religious leaders in his day, albeit, in a different way.