Christ Centered Gamer

I think you need to calm down a bit, Deadman. I mean, I don't agree with the people who say the first three Sonic's are the only ones, but I feel like a lot of the newer games are pretty bad and it's hard to find the few good titles out of all of them.

I think Adventure 2 is universally known to be the best 3D Sonic game. Generations and Colors are also excellent games. The first Adventure game was not too bad, would have been perfect if Big the Cat didn't show up. Besides those four, I didn't really enjoy the other games. I had a lot of interest for Unleashed until they introduced WEREWOLF SONIC. *shudder*

First off, Sonic Unleashed is cool. Sonic has insecurities, too.

Second, so what if they put a fat purple cat in the Sonic franchise. They put an orange echidna and a weasel in Sonic the Fighters. What's the deal?

I think it had to do with the fact that the fishing levels were such a complete turn off from all the speed and action that was presented throughout the game until that point. Didn't help that it was mandatory to go through if you wanted to complete the game.

I hated unleashed because of similar reasons, the werewolf levels were slow, and a complete turn off from all the great day levels that were presented. At least, that's what I hear, I never played the game besides the demo. I really enjoyed that demo, too.

I also heard the Wii version of the game is way better than the PS3/360 version because it was different. Should check it out sometime.

I don't think the problem is that people are saying that no Sonic games have ever been made since Sonic 1-3.

We're saying that no good Sonic games have been made since then.

That is to say that I've played an unfortunate number of the above mentioned titles, and can tell you - as a critic, as a gamer, as someone who values games that don't waste my time, because there is so little of it, and I need to spend it on things that don't feel entirely frivolous, which is something that the Sonic games certainly do not achieve - that the Sonic titles that have been mentioned offer little in the way of depth, value or gracefully aged mechanics to players.

See, that's the real problem with the Sonic series: if the game had been in good hands (read: besides Sonic Team), there would have been meaningful gameplay evolutions, mechanics that served to smooth the experience rather than frustrate, and other "modern" game innovations.

What's unfortunate is that there have been amazing Sonic games in the past. The benefit of the Mario games is, barring the New Super Mario Bros. games, they're willing to take risks and experiment. They aren't as decidedly one-note as the Sonic games have become.

Oh, we can grind on rails with three characters? Awesome.

None of it feels as significant or revelatory as the original three Sonic games.

I was there when they came out. I remember what it was like to play those games, and how they threatened to keep me glued to the screen. I've come back to them again and again over the years. I can't say the same for the more recent Sonic titles. I'm sure others on the forum (like Arch) are with me on the one.

If you can, more power to you.

Drewsov wrote:I don't think the problem is that people are saying that no Sonic games have ever been made since Sonic 1-3.

We're saying that no good Sonic games have been made since then.

That is to say that I've played an unfortunate number of the above mentioned titles, and can tell you - as a critic, as a gamer, as someone who values games that don't waste my time, because there is so little of it, and I need to spend it on things that don't feel entirely frivolous, which is something that the Sonic games certainly do not achieve - that the Sonic titles that have been mentioned offer little in the way of depth, value or gracefully aged mechanics to players.

See, that's the real problem with the Sonic series: if the game had been in good hands (read: besides Sonic Team), there would have been meaningful gameplay evolutions, mechanics that served to smooth the experience rather than frustrate, and other "modern" game innovations.

What's unfortunate is that there have been amazing Sonic games in the past. The benefit of the Mario games is, barring the New Super Mario Bros. games, they're willing to take risks and experiment. They aren't as decidedly one-note as the Sonic games have become.

Oh, we can grind on rails with three characters? Awesome.

None of it feels as significant or revelatory as the original three Sonic games.

I was there when they came out. I remember what it was like to play those games, and how they threatened to keep me glued to the screen. I've come back to them again and again over the years. I can't say the same for the more recent Sonic titles. I'm sure others on the forum (like Arch) are with me on the one.

If you can, more power to you.

If that's the case, look up and Sonic and the Dark Brotherhood. Maybe that'll satisfy your hunger. By the way, Sonic Unleashed is a cool game. So is every other Sonic game in existence. Depends on how you look at it.

DeadManReedeemed wrote:

Drewsov wrote:I don't think the problem is that people are saying that no Sonic games have ever been made since Sonic 1-3.

We're saying that no good Sonic games have been made since then.

That is to say that I've played an unfortunate number of the above mentioned titles, and can tell you - as a critic, as a gamer, as someone who values games that don't waste my time, because there is so little of it, and I need to spend it on things that don't feel entirely frivolous, which is something that the Sonic games certainly do not achieve - that the Sonic titles that have been mentioned offer little in the way of depth, value or gracefully aged mechanics to players.

See, that's the real problem with the Sonic series: if the game had been in good hands (read: besides Sonic Team), there would have been meaningful gameplay evolutions, mechanics that served to smooth the experience rather than frustrate, and other "modern" game innovations.

What's unfortunate is that there have been amazing Sonic games in the past. The benefit of the Mario games is, barring the New Super Mario Bros. games, they're willing to take risks and experiment. They aren't as decidedly one-note as the Sonic games have become.

Oh, we can grind on rails with three characters? Awesome.

None of it feels as significant or revelatory as the original three Sonic games.

I was there when they came out. I remember what it was like to play those games, and how they threatened to keep me glued to the screen. I've come back to them again and again over the years. I can't say the same for the more recent Sonic titles. I'm sure others on the forum (like Arch) are with me on the one.

If you can, more power to you.

If that's the case, look up and Sonic and the Dark Brotherhood. Maybe that'll satisfy your hunger. By the way, Sonic Unleashed is a cool game. So is every other Sonic game in existence. Depends on how you look at it.

That cruddy little Bioware game? It's the one Bioware game that I don't want to play, because even though I know it's in good hands, I can't stand the characters.

Regardless, one good title after almost fifteen years of awful is not enough to make up for the awful.

Drewsov wrote:

DeadManReedeemed wrote:

Drewsov wrote:I don't think the problem is that people are saying that no Sonic games have ever been made since Sonic 1-3.

We're saying that no good Sonic games have been made since then.

That is to say that I've played an unfortunate number of the above mentioned titles, and can tell you - as a critic, as a gamer, as someone who values games that don't waste my time, because there is so little of it, and I need to spend it on things that don't feel entirely frivolous, which is something that the Sonic games certainly do not achieve - that the Sonic titles that have been mentioned offer little in the way of depth, value or gracefully aged mechanics to players.

See, that's the real problem with the Sonic series: if the game had been in good hands (read: besides Sonic Team), there would have been meaningful gameplay evolutions, mechanics that served to smooth the experience rather than frustrate, and other "modern" game innovations.

What's unfortunate is that there have been amazing Sonic games in the past. The benefit of the Mario games is, barring the New Super Mario Bros. games, they're willing to take risks and experiment. They aren't as decidedly one-note as the Sonic games have become.

Oh, we can grind on rails with three characters? Awesome.

None of it feels as significant or revelatory as the original three Sonic games.

I was there when they came out. I remember what it was like to play those games, and how they threatened to keep me glued to the screen. I've come back to them again and again over the years. I can't say the same for the more recent Sonic titles. I'm sure others on the forum (like Arch) are with me on the one.

If you can, more power to you.

If that's the case, look up and Sonic and the Dark Brotherhood. Maybe that'll satisfy your hunger. By the way, Sonic Unleashed is a cool game. So is every other Sonic game in existence. Depends on how you look at it.

That cruddy little Bioware game? It's the one Bioware game that I don't want to play, because even though I know it's in good hands, I can't stand the characters.

Regardless, one good title after almost fifteen years of awful is not enough to make up for the awful.

Whatever. That is your opinion. I like most Sonic games.

Okay, so you're flying off the chain when people state their opinion because it's "not true," and suddenly you're dismissing those claims out of hand because the insanity doesn't seem to work?

Were I a mod...

You're both pretty much doing the same thing, though. To say that Sonic games are "awful" because you didn't enjoy them, and him saying they're "amazing" because he enjoyed them.

Both of you need to relax and move on. No use in arguing over opinions.

EDIT - STOP LIKING WHAT I DON'T LIKE, STOP HATING ON WHAT I LIKE.

Krytae wrote:You're both pretty much doing the same thing, though. To say that Sonic games are "awful" because you didn't enjoy them, and him saying they're "amazing" because he enjoyed them.

Both of you need to relax and move on. No use in arguing over opinions.

EDIT - STOP LIKING WHAT I DON'T LIKE, STOP HATING ON WHAT I LIKE.

This. The opinion that no good Sonic games have been made since the originals is just as valid as the one that says there are amazing ones. You're each entitled to your opinion, "even if it is wrong" as the old saying goes.

Please, calm down and be kind to each other.

DO I NOT LOOK CALM TO YOU?

Drew: I'd quote that movie, but....

Chozon1 wrote: You're each entitled to your opinion, "even if it is wrong" as the old saying goes.

I'm pretty sure the old saying isn't family-friendly.


That said, I actually enjoyed Sonic Adventure 1 and 2. And I even enjoyed Generations, in spite of some wonky control mechanics. But Black Knight, Unleashed, the next gen, etc have all been, in my opinion, a disrespect to all that the series stood for. While Black Knight wasn't a "bad" game, it didn't feel like Sonic to me. And don't get me started on the calamity that was Unleashed. XD

Sonic 1-3 are beastmode awesome. Easily my favorites in the series. Stinking hard, though...

Deepfreeze32 wrote:I'm pretty sure the old saying isn't family-friendly.

No, but it is true. People may be vocalizing 'let's agree to disagree' but they're thinking 'you're welcome to your opinion, even if it is wrong'.

Like I said. think what you want. I like the new Sonic games. Besides, if Capcom can do Street Fighter x Tekken and getaway with it then Sega can look at Sonic from different perspectives, too.

Haha, I started something and left. Brilliant.

Anyhow, it seems Drew and I rarely agree when it comes to gaming. But here, I have to say, his analysis is spot on.
And Krytae, we have to be fair to Drew. His opinions come off strong and even abrasive, but what it isn't is dismissive. He does address and he does provide reasoning. I credit him that, even though if it it may seem entirely off to myself (e.g. the Max Payne 3 is not film noir and the theme is an entire departure from the first 2, I'm just saying )

I've played the new sonic games. Not all, but a decent amount.
Besides the ones I mentioned, I also played:
Sonic CD.
Sonic 3D Blast.
Dr. Robotnik's Mean Bean Machine.
That Sonic game for the Game Gear.
Sonic R.
Sonic Adventure.
Sonic All Star Racing.
Sonic and the Black Knight.
Sonic Unleashed.
Sonic Colors.
Sonic Episode 1.
Sonic Generations.

I gave the franchise chances time and time again, and some games were enjoyable and some where downright terrible.
But, in all honestly, I wouldn't stick to playing any of these games if it weren't Sonic. I do have some Blue Goggles on, but none of them stack up to the finesse and polish of the early games (Sonic 2 being the best, imo), not to mention the sort of ground breaking it did for the platforming genre. Not one of them could stand up to what the earlier ones brought to the table, and so I said there were only those "real" games.
I wasn't insulting your livelihood, or challenging your honor. I just stated my stance I came to through gaming and reasoning which also happens to be shared with much of the gaming critics. So it's not like I'm crazy or anything. (well, okay, I can't contend that last bit)


Chozon, isn't that just the same thing? If we agree to disagree, and let's face it, each one of us thinks we are right, then anyone we agree with is wrong, but they are still welcome to have their own opinions. I don't see much difference other than one makes people feel nicer.