Christ Centered Gamer

Cool. ^_^ I think I'm actually going to go for a 'named' HQ to get some of the benefits they offer. Havna decided yet.

And that's actually kind of what I was thinking. Torn between that and a Scout squad (though I have heard recently that those can be a bit useless. ). And Land raiders are expensive point wise. XD It's like...1/6 of a 1500 point army. O_o

OK, so the rulebook said that I can remove the jumppacks from an assault squad and make them infantry. Does that mean they can be used as a troop choice, or just...turn into infantry instead of fast attack?

Removing jump packs from an Assault Squad doesn't change them into another army list type... they're still an Assault Squad, so they still count as Fast Attack even though they're no longer... fast. I can't imagine much benefit to doing that, since you can build an equivalent Tactical squad for cheaper points, unless there are specific wargear options available to an Assault Squad that aren't available to a Tactical Squad. (Like Melta Bombs)

IMHO the best and most flexible basic Space Marine unit is a Tactical Squad with a Lascannon or Missile Launcher upgrade, and a Power Fist for the sergeant. With the rest of the squad equipped with bolters, that gives them the ability to be a jack of all trades but master none. Krak grenades are also useful if you think you might be facing vehicles, but frag grenades are a waste of points.

I can't put chainswords onto Tactical squads. And I've seen Tac squads get charged and mildly decimated in the assault phase. It does seem like a waste thinking back on it, but the idea of unloading a Rhino full of angry marines with chainswords into the opposing factions face seems so...satisfying. Not something you expect (at least from Ultramarines...don't know about Black Templars).

I think it's just so you don't have to worry about scattering with the jump packs. But pleh. So many rules I need to learn. XD

Is it OK to use non-Citadel paints on the models (since they're a lot cheaper), or a bad idea?

Chozon1 wrote:I can't put chainswords onto Tactical squads. And I've seen Tac squads get charged and mildly decimated in the assault phase. It does seem like a waste thinking back on it, but the idea of unloading a Rhino full of angry marines with chainswords into the opposing factions face seems so...satisfying. Not something you expect (at least from Ultramarines...don't know about Black Templars).

Are you sure? I could have sworn there was an option to replace bolters with bolt pistol/close combat weapon on that list... And chainswords count as a generic close combat weapon.

Chozon1 wrote: I think it's just so you don't have to worry about scattering with the jump packs. But pleh. So many rules I need to learn. XD

Is it OK to use non-Citadel paints on the models (since they're a lot cheaper), or a bad idea?

Absolutely. In fact, my personal favorite are the Valejo paints. I like the paint bottles with the dropper tip better than the little paint pots that Citadel and P3 use. They're also cheaper and IMHO higher quality.

ArcticFox wrote:Are you sure? I could have sworn there was an option to replace bolters with bolt pistol/close combat weapon on that list... And chainswords count as a generic close combat weapon.

Far as I know, only a Space marine Sergeant can switch out his bolter/bolt pistol for a Chainsword. It's the only melee weapon thing listed under the 'options' list, anyway. Scouts can take combat knives though. Mayhaps I am reading the rules wrong.

ArcticFox wrote:Absolutely. In fact, my personal favorite are the Valejo paints. I like the paint bottles with the dropper tip better than the little paint pots that Citadel and P3 use. They're also cheaper and IMHO higher quality.

Where do you get these?

Chozon1 wrote: Far as I know, only a Space marine Sergeant can switch out his bolter/bolt pistol for a Chainsword. It's the only melee weapon thing listed under the 'options' list, anyway. Scouts can take combat knives though. Mayhaps I am reading the rules wrong.

No I'll take your word for it, you have the book, after all. I sold my copy of the Space Marine Codex in the engagement ring fund. The Black Templars don't have a Tactical Squad as such, but rather, run in Crusader Squads which can have any combination of bolters or bolt pistol/chainsword.

Combat Knives are considered generic close combat weapons. All models are assumed to have some kind of close combat weapon, whether it be a combat knife, using a bolter as a club, picking up a severed limb from the battlefield, etc. I guess they specify combat knives for scouts or chainswords for sergeants because a main rule update might well differentiate them at some point.

Chozon1 wrote:

ArcticFox wrote:Absolutely. In fact, my personal favorite are the Valejo paints.

Where do you get these?

I get mine from a gaming store just south of Baltimore, so you should be able to find them at any decent gaming store (Except GW of course.). They're just a really good quality acrylic paint that come in bottles that have a dropper so you can control how much paint you put on your palette. You can probably order them online as well.

Man that's sweet.

ArcticFox wrote:No I'll take your word for it, you have the book, after all. I sold my copy of the Space Marine Codex in the engagement ring fund. The Black Templars don't have a Tactical Squad as such, but rather, run in Crusader Squads which can have any combination of bolters or bolt pistol/chainsword.

Combat Knives are considered generic close combat weapons. All models are assumed to have some kind of close combat weapon, whether it be a combat knife, using a bolter as a club, picking up a severed limb from the battlefield, etc. I guess they specify combat knives for scouts or chainswords for sergeants because a main rule update might well differentiate them at some point.

Man that's sweet. I'm pretty happy with my vanilla marines, but if I'd known about the Crusader squads I might have hunted down a Black Templar codex. XD Totally understand the fear that would come from a Black Templar drop squad landing behind you now. XD And from what I'm reading, Scouts can take combat knives as their weapon instead of a rifle...I *think* I'm reading that wrong though, since it wouldn't make much sense. Not that a Scout in close combat makes sense anyway. O_O But the sergeant can carry a teleport homer, so I may actually want to give a squad a shot if my army has Terminators in it.

Techmarines?

ArcticFox wrote:I get mine from a gaming store just south of Baltimore, so you should be able to find them at any decent gaming store (Except GW of course.). They're just a really good quality acrylic paint that come in bottles that have a dropper so you can control how much paint you put on your palette. You can probably order them online as well.

Having trouble finding them. Only local store is GW now, and on the internets (spelled with two L's?) only found them in a random Sci-Fi shop place.

Reaper paints are the only other ones I've found in a dropper bottle.

Chozon1 wrote: Man that's sweet. I'm pretty happy with my vanilla marines, but if I'd known about the Crusader squads I might have hunted down a Black Templar codex. XD Totally understand the fear that would come from a Black Templar drop squad landing behind you now. XD And from what I'm reading, Scouts can take combat knives as their weapon instead of a rifle...I *think* I'm reading that wrong though, since it wouldn't make much sense. Not that a Scout in close combat makes sense anyway. O_O But the sergeant can carry a teleport homer, so I may actually want to give a squad a shot if my army has Terminators in it.

Hmm sounds like you might be. Unless combat knives have some kind of special rules to them... You're right about scouts not being much for the close combat, but equipping a squad with a teleport homer to guide your terminators in is a good idea.

Chozon1 wrote: Techmarines?

The only use I've ever put my Techmarine to is combat... because while his ability to fix stuff is "meh" he is a close combat monster. Since he's an Elite ad not an HQ, you can get the flexibility to include him without burning up one of your HQ slots. Give him a pistol, the servo harness, Terminator honors, a power weapon and artificer armor for some extra face crushing fun.

I think the Techmarine has 2 Attacks base... (At least, he does in the BT book) plus the extra attack from the servo arm. Give him Terminator Honors for the additional +1 A, a pistol for yet another +1 Close combat Attack, and then a power weapon. Now add teh full servo harness for an additional +1 A and the artificer armor. Now you've got a marine with 6 Attacks (7 on the charge) per combat round of which 2 count as power fist attacks and 4 (or 5) count as power weapon attacks.

Yeah, it makes me throw up a little in my mouth too.

Chozon1 wrote: Having trouble finding them. Only local store is GW now, and on the internets (spelled with two L's?) only found them in a random Sci-Fi shop place.

Reaper paints are the only other ones I've found in a dropper bottle.

Yeah, 2 'l's'

Reaper is decent from what I've heard, and some painters swear by it. I can't say from experience because I haven't had an opportunity to try it.

*Power fists count as power weapons but they also double the wearer's Strength for purposes of the hit.
*Power weapons that hit and wound allow NO ARMOR SAVE.

"Hi, I'm Chozon's Techmarine. I'm going to punch you 7 times right now."
"I don't care. I'm wearing POWER ARMOR BABY"
"To me, it may as well be a sheet of toilet paper. Prepare to die."
"Urrrk......"

ArcticFox wrote:Hmm sounds like you might be. Unless combat knives have some kind of special rules to them... You're right about scouts not being much for the close combat, but equipping a squad with a teleport homer to guide your terminators in is a good idea

Cool. The only problem I see is...there's not much stopping the opposing player from wiping out the squad before I can get the Terminators in. XD Unless there's a handy patch of forest or a building nearby to cower in. Anyway, to quote: 'Any model may replace his boltgun with: A shotgun, combat blade or sniper rifle (for free).' With boltgun and bolt pistol being their only two weapons. Am I missing something?

ArcticFox wrote:The only use I've ever put my Techmarine to is combat... because while his ability to fix stuff is "meh" he is a close combat monster. Since he's an Elite ad not an HQ, you can get the flexibility to include him without burning up one of your HQ slots. Give him a pistol, the servo harness, Terminator honors, a power weapon and artificer armor for some extra face crushing fun.

I think the Techmarine has 2 Attacks base... (At least, he does in the BT book) plus the extra attack from the servo arm. Give him Terminator Honors for the additional +1 A, a pistol for yet another +1 Close combat Attack, and then a power weapon. Now add teh full servo harness for an additional +1 A and the artificer armor. Now you've got a marine with 6 Attacks (7 on the charge) per combat round of which 2 count as power fist attacks and 4 (or 5) count as power weapon attacks.

Yeah, it makes me throw up a little in my mouth too.

Dear sweet monkey fudge. I have no idea what Terminator honors are, but that's ridiculous. O_O I have no idea whether the stats are the same in the Ultramarine codex, but even so. That's crazy. And I had totally no plans to get a Techmarine since their fluff creeps me out. XD Might have to rethink that. I'd need to get the main rulebook and make sure the stats are the same though, I 'spose.

ArcticFox wrote:Yeah, 2 'l's'

Reaper is decent from what I've heard, and some painters swear by it. I can't say from experience because I haven't had an opportunity to try it.

*Power fists count as power weapons but they also double the wearer's Strength for purposes of the hit.
*Power weapons that hit and wound allow NO ARMOR SAVE.

"Hi, I'm Chozon's Techmarine. I'm going to punch you 7 times right now."
"I don't care. I'm wearing POWER ARMOR BABY"
"To me, it may as well be a sheet of toilet paper. Prepare to die."
"Urrrk......"

You had me 'ignore armor'. O_O But that was hilarious. XD

Would getting Assault on Black Reach be a good idea to start my collection? I know I'll likely not have a use for the Orks or the mini rulebook, but I added up the figures in the box and the Space Marines alone hit $145 or so. Not including the templates and die.

Main reason I ask is because I kinda want to make sure that the miniatures aren't so much cheaper because they left half of the weapons and bits out.

Chozon1 wrote: Cool. The only problem I see is...there's not much stopping the opposing player from wiping out the squad before I can get the Terminators in. XD Unless there's a handy patch of forest or a building nearby to cower in. Anyway, to quote: 'Any model may replace his boltgun with: A shotgun, combat blade or sniper rifle (for free).' With boltgun and bolt pistol being their only two weapons. Am I missing something?

Do they come with a bolt pistol? If so, then under the current rules set the addition of a combat blade means an extra close combat attack. (A pistol of any type counts as a close combat weapon, and whenever you have two of them, that gives an extra attack.)

Chozon1 wrote: Dear sweet monkey fudge. I have no idea what Terminator honors are, but that's ridiculous.

It's when a marine has proven his awesomeness enough to be eligible to wear Terminator armor, even though he may not always do so. (It's in the wargear section of your book too.)

Chozon1 wrote: O_O I have no idea whether the stats are the same in the Ultramarine codex, but even so. That's crazy. And I had totally no plans to get a Techmarine since their fluff creeps me out. XD Might have to rethink that. I'd need to get the main rulebook and make sure the stats are the same though, I 'spose.

Stats will all be in the Codex. The main rulebook is very generic and generally doesn't have stat bars for models.

Chozon1 wrote: You had me 'ignore armor'. O_O But that was hilarious. XD

Would getting Assault on Black Reach be a good idea to start my collection? I know I'll likely not have a use for the Orks or the mini rulebook, but I added up the figures in the box and the Space Marines alone hit $145 or so. Not including the templates and die.

Main reason I ask is because I kinda want to make sure that the miniatures aren't so much cheaper because they left half of the weapons and bits out.

The answer is: Maybe. The marines indeed are cheaper because they're molded with specific poses and wargear that aren't meant to be nearly as customizeable as a marine box. If they happen to fit the loadout you already wanted, then it's a great deal with a bunch of marines you can assemble and paint quickly and easily. Otherwise you're stuck with a bunch of models that will spend most of their time on a shelf. The mini rulebook is in my son's opinion "the awesomest thing Games Workshop has ever sold." an if it weren't for the imminent rules edition change, it would be worth it. At this point if you're considering the box set, you're better off waiting until they release the new rulebook, because it'll be a new box set too with a new mini rulebook.

Rumor is that the new box set will feature Dark Angels vs. Chaos Space Marines.

ArcticFox wrote:Do they come with a bolt pistol? If so, then under the current rules set the addition of a combat blade means an extra close combat attack. (A pistol of any type counts as a close combat weapon, and whenever you have two of them, that gives an extra attack.)

Yeah, they do. I just don't understand why you'd equip them with a combat blade instead of a gun, since from what I've read, they don't last long in close combat. Might be wrong on that.

ArcticFox wrote:It's when a marine has proven his awesomeness enough to be eligible to wear Terminator armor, even though he may not always do so. (It's in the wargear section of your book too.)

Ultramarine Techmarines are already equipped with artificer armor and, as far as I can tell, I can't equip them with Terminator stuff. Though I do see the Terminator armor section.

ArcticFox wrote:Stats will all be in the Codex. The main rulebook is very generic and generally doesn't have stat bars for models.

I meant that I don't know what the letters mean and how they apply. XD I need the generic stuff. And that I'm unsure if Ultramarine Techmarines are the same as Black Templar TM's.

ArcticFox wrote:The answer is: Maybe. The marines indeed are cheaper because they're molded with specific poses and wargear that aren't meant to be nearly as customizeable as a marine box. If they happen to fit the loadout you already wanted, then it's a great deal with a bunch of marines you can assemble and paint quickly and easily. Otherwise you're stuck with a bunch of models that will spend most of their time on a shelf. The mini rulebook is in my son's opinion "the awesomest thing Games Workshop has ever sold." an if it weren't for the imminent rules edition change, it would be worth it. At this point if you're considering the box set, you're better off waiting until they release the new rulebook, because it'll be a new box set too with a new mini rulebook.

Rumor is that the new box set will feature Dark Angels vs. Chaos Space Marines.

Laaaaaaame. XD So impatient...If it were anything but a main rulebook update...Ah well. Not really interested in a Dark Angels vs Chaos Space Marines...but that's still a cool match up. Be fun to watch. I'm still not sure I don't want to go with Space Wolves...My codex was cheap, so I'd not feel bad about switching.

Tyranid swarms?

Chozon1 wrote: Yeah, they do. I just don't understand why you'd equip them with a combat blade instead of a gun, since from what I've read, they don't last long in close combat. Might be wrong on that.

As regular close combat guys they're not the worst... just not as good as the regulars. Plus, they get a bolt pistol/combat blade as an option, right? That's 3 attacks on the assault... not shabby at all...

Chozon1 wrote: Ultramarine Techmarines are already equipped with artificer armor and, as far as I can tell, I can't equip them with Terminator stuff. Though I do see the Terminator armor section.

True, you can't equip them with Terminator armor... but you CAN give them Terminator honors. Just because you're eligible to wear Terminator armor doesn't mean you always do. (In the Black Templars book the artificer armor is an upgrade... they come with regular power armor initially.)

Chozon1 wrote: I meant that I don't know what the letters mean and how they apply. XD I need the generic stuff. And that I'm unsure if Ultramarine Techmarines are the same as Black Templar TM's.

I think they were the same at one point, but a little of what you've told me makes me think they're different now. I plan to buy a copy of that book myself because there's a 30K campaign going on this Summer at the local GW store, and I have to play pre-heresy. (Black Templars are a post Heresy chapter, so I can't use 'em.)

Chozon1 wrote: Laaaaaaame. XD So impatient...If it were anything but a main rulebook update...Ah well. Not really interested in a Dark Angels vs Chaos Space Marines...but that's still a cool match up. Be fun to watch. I'm still not sure I don't want to go with Space Wolves...My codex was cheap, so I'd not feel bad about switching.

Tyranid swarms?

I got annihilated by one once at a tournament...

ArcticFox wrote:As regular close combat guys they're not the worst... just not as good as the regulars. Plus, they get a bolt pistol/combat blade as an option, right? That's 3 attacks on the assault... not shabby at all...

Pretty sure they do. They've got bolt pistol and Bolter as their combat gear, with the option to switch the bolter with a combat blade...hmm...fiendish laughter, thou art my friend.

ArcticFox wrote:True, you can't equip them with Terminator armor... but you CAN give them Terminator honors. Just because you're eligible to wear Terminator armor doesn't mean you always do. (In the Black Templars book the artificer armor is an upgrade... they come with regular power armor initially.)

Neat. XD I need to read up on that. I have not seen anything like that in my codex.

ArcticFox wrote: I think they were the same at one point, but a little of what you've told me makes me think they're different now. I plan to buy a copy of that book myself because there's a 30K campaign going on this Summer at the local GW store, and I have to play pre-heresy. (Black Templars are a post Heresy chapter, so I can't use 'em.)

Are you going to proxy stuff, or do you have another army you ain't telling me about? O_o

ArcticFox wrote:I got annihilated by one once at a tournament...

Nice. Is it just me or did Starcraft basically take 40K and make it a video game? Because Tyranids look ridiculously like Zerg.

Am I a jerk for only coming in this thread t laugh at the nerdage?

Chozon1 wrote:Pretty sure they do. They've got bolt pistol and Bolter as their combat gear, with the option to switch the bolter with a combat blade...hmm...fiendish laughter, thou art my friend.

Ah ok. Better to do the swap and get the combat blade. You lose 12" of shooting range but you get an extra close combat attack. (That depends on your strategy, of course.)

Chozon1 wrote: Are you going to proxy stuff, or do you have another army you ain't telling me about? O_o

No other army... so whether to proxy stuff is the big question. In the fluff, the Black Templars chapter was formed from the Imperial Fists legion (whose rules are in the Space Marine Codex.) So I talked to one of the guys at GW and asked if I had the option of playing my Templars as Imperial Fists. In the storyline, the Black Templars got their insignia and color from the personal heraldry of Sigismund, first Emperor's Champion and former First Company Commander of the Imperial Fists. If I play it like this is Sigismund's first company, it could explain their use of the black and white color scheme with the Maltese Cross insignia, as matching their leader.

But...

Since I have to buy the SM Codex anyway, and since ALL the Marine Legions in this campaign have to use it (Except the prettybody Space Wolves) then I may revisit an old project I'd abandoned, to do a Thousand Sons Legion force, in their original Imperial colors and using the old style power armor available from Forge World.

Problem: $$$

Chozon1 wrote: Nice. Is it just me or did Starcraft basically take 40K and make it a video game? Because Tyranids look ridiculously like Zerg.

Totally. When you watch the teaser video for StarCraft II I imagine that's what it looks like when an Imperial Space Marine gets armored up.

Orodrist wrote:Am I a jerk for only coming in this thread t laugh at the nerdage?

No, because you know deep down you want to join us