Christ Centered Gamer

No I haven't. Any good?

Actually, yes. We're on season 3, I think, and thus far it's been both funny and good. And reasonably fambly friendly. It's like The Sting, almost.

So I had an idea about taking some Thunderwolf Cavalry and trying to convert them into Storm Lances.

Because wolf riding > horse riding.

Your thoughts?

I realize there's a size/scale difference I'd have to account for. But the idea just so appeals to me. XD

That's a really cool idea. You should totally do it!

I want to. Though there is some question as to whether I would get to use them in PP events.

Building Space Marine armor?

Actually, a friend of mine is working on one that's nearly complete. He had a suit before and gave me the helmet from it since he didn't need it anymore. He's pledged to help me build my own if I want to

Do you agree with the quote below? If not, please elaborate on what you think.

So, What’s the Difference Between Mormon Grace and Christian Grace?
The Christian view of grace doesn’t involve a ladder of any kind; in Christian theology, Jesus doesn’t bring us a ladder to climb. Instead, Jesus drops us a lifeline, a rope He climbs down and ties to each of us. Jesus then pulls us up on his own, in spite of our own inability. It doesn’t matter how heavy we are or where we are in our journey toward sanctification. We simply have to trust him to tie the lifeline. Mormonism is a works based religion, like many other world religions. In fact, in this one regard, Mormonism is like every other world religion. Christianity stands alone as the only religion that offers true “grace” to its adherents. Salvation is not the result of anything we do. God offers it as a free gift; not a free opportunity to work hard for our salvation, but a truly free gift that needs no additional contribution on our part. This distinction is critical and it separates Mormonism from Christianity, not as a separate denomination, but as a completely separate notion about the nature and saving work of God.
http://coldcasechristianity.com/2012/th ... mon-grace/

Ephesians 2:8-9 New King James Version (NKJV)
8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast.

A of F 1:3 The Articles of Faith of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints
“We believe that through the Atonement of Christ, all mankind may be saved, by obedience to the laws and ordinances of the Gospel.”
https://www.lds.org/scriptures/pgp/a-of ... lang=eng#2

Darkkodiak wrote:Do you agree with the quote below? If not, please elaborate on what you think.

So, What’s the Difference Between Mormon Grace and Christian Grace?
The Christian view of grace doesn’t involve a ladder of any kind; in Christian theology, Jesus doesn’t bring us a ladder to climb. Instead, Jesus drops us a lifeline, a rope He climbs down and ties to each of us. Jesus then pulls us up on his own, in spite of our own inability. It doesn’t matter how heavy we are or where we are in our journey toward sanctification. We simply have to trust him to tie the lifeline. Mormonism is a works based religion, like many other world religions. In fact, in this one regard, Mormonism is like every other world religion. Christianity stands alone as the only religion that offers true “grace” to its adherents. Salvation is not the result of anything we do. God offers it as a free gift; not a free opportunity to work hard for our salvation, but a truly free gift that needs no additional contribution on our part. This distinction is critical and it separates Mormonism from Christianity, not as a separate denomination, but as a completely separate notion about the nature and saving work of God.
http://coldcasechristianity.com/2012/th ... mon-grace/

As a fellow Mormon, I'll help by providing my perspective....

For starters, it seems that this passage is immediately dismissive of the LDS church, labeling it as something other than a branch of Christianity. That immediate bias indicates to me, at least, that the argument is hardly objective in its approach - indeed, it has a "No True Scotsman" feel to it (you can look it up on TV Tropes if you want details about what I mean there).

Secondly, I think this has been touched on in the OSAS thread here. Basically, it gives the impression that once baptized - or even just accepting Jesus as your Lord and Savior if you don't believe in baptism - that you're in for good. Even if you're a complete and total jerk to everyone you know, it doesn't matter. Once you're Saved, you're Saved forever.

Frankly, I don't think I'd want to worship a God that was that lenient. I certainly wouldn't want to share an afterlife with people like that. I do believe that good works alone aren't going to be enough for salvation, though - no one can earn a place in Heaven leaning solely upon their own merits. As James 2:26 says, faith without works is dead. Interestingly enough, I just found this interesting article - not from an LDS site - that explains it further.

That's pretty awesome, about the suit. XD Epic even. I've decided to go with Mjolnir armor, since the Space Marine is just incredibly complex.

Elio's?

Finding out that the Draugr lord you're fighting has an OP sword?

Sstavix wrote:

Darkkodiak wrote:Do you agree with the quote below? If not, please elaborate on what you think.

So, What’s the Difference Between Mormon Grace and Christian Grace?
The Christian view of grace doesn’t involve a ladder of any kind; in Christian theology, Jesus doesn’t bring us a ladder to climb. Instead, Jesus drops us a lifeline, a rope He climbs down and ties to each of us. Jesus then pulls us up on his own, in spite of our own inability. It doesn’t matter how heavy we are or where we are in our journey toward sanctification. We simply have to trust him to tie the lifeline. Mormonism is a works based religion, like many other world religions. In fact, in this one regard, Mormonism is like every other world religion. Christianity stands alone as the only religion that offers true “grace” to its adherents. Salvation is not the result of anything we do. God offers it as a free gift; not a free opportunity to work hard for our salvation, but a truly free gift that needs no additional contribution on our part. This distinction is critical and it separates Mormonism from Christianity, not as a separate denomination, but as a completely separate notion about the nature and saving work of God.
http://coldcasechristianity.com/2012/th ... mon-grace/

As a fellow Mormon, I'll help by providing my perspective....

For starters, it seems that this passage is immediately dismissive of the LDS church, labeling it as something other than a branch of Christianity. That immediate bias indicates to me, at least, that the argument is hardly objective in its approach - indeed, it has a "No True Scotsman" feel to it (you can look it up on TV Tropes if you want details about what I mean there).

Secondly, I think this has been touched on in the OSAS thread here. Basically, it gives the impression that once baptized - or even just accepting Jesus as your Lord and Savior if you don't believe in baptism - that you're in for good. Even if you're a complete and total jerk to everyone you know, it doesn't matter. Once you're Saved, you're Saved forever.

Frankly, I don't think I'd want to worship a God that was that lenient. I certainly wouldn't want to share an afterlife with people like that. I do believe that good works alone aren't going to be enough for salvation, though - no one can earn a place in Heaven leaning solely upon their own merits. As James 2:26 says, faith without works is dead. Interestingly enough, I just found this interesting article - not from an LDS site - that explains it further.

Sstavix wrote:For starters, it seems that this passage is immediately dismissive of the LDS church, labeling it as something other than a branch of Christianity. That immediate bias indicates to me, at least, that the argument is hardly objective in its approach - indeed, it has a "No True Scotsman" feel to it

You are correct. The author represents a majority of evangelicals who do not believe that Mormonism is a denomination of Christianity due to differences in what most feel represent core beliefs. However, the quote was referenced because of it's analogy of Jesus' grace.

Sstavix wrote:Secondly, I think this has been touched on in the OSAS thread here. Basically, it gives the impression that once baptized - or even just accepting Jesus as your Lord and Savior if you don't believe in baptism - that you're in for good. Even if you're a complete and total jerk to everyone you know, it doesn't matter. Once you're Saved, you're Saved forever.

Thank you for referencing the OSAS thread and the article, I feel like it is a good background to the question. After reading and thinking about it, the analogy in question is not about immutability (OSAS), but about the nature of grace (faith and works).

When Jesus throws down a rope, I would add to the authors example by saying that Jesus does not tie us to the rope. Rather, we have to tie ourselves to the rope (thus dismissing OSAS to avoid confusion). We could of course choose to untie ourselves or cut ourselves free at any time, but for the purpose of this example, I would say that the rope was incredibly reliable and had a harness on the end so that we could not accidentally fall off. Given this, the nature of the rescue (salvation) is dependent on Jesus pulling us up.

In the ladder example, after Jesus offers the ladder, we would have to climb the rest of the way ourselves. In this case the example is meant to illustrate how reaching rescue (salvation) is dependent on us climbing up the ladder. If we slip and fall a little, we lose ground that we have to make up, and if take a big slip, we will not make it. Only those whose works (climbing abilities) are excellent will be able to reach the goal. Jesus is not dropping the ladder to pull you up on it, but to give the chance to climb up on your own.

The question is not about the exclusiveness of faith or works, but about the nature of the rescue. Specifically, the question was meant to "ask the Mormon(s)" if you agree with the authors observation on the difference. At this point it has evolved into a conversation, so I would ask: "Do you agree with I am seeing from the author's article? Do you feel that the rope and ladder examples illustrate the differences between Mormon grace and Christian grace?"

How are you doing? I know it's been a rough summer for you and your family.

Darkkodiak wrote:Do you agree with the quote below? If not, please elaborate on what you think.

I don't, because I disagree with the assertion that it's a works based system.

Even if one believes in a OSAS doctrine, it still requires that the person being saved make the conscious choice to accept Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior. It's no different in LDS. We have to choose to follow Him.

Usually when someone says a faith is "works based" they're suggesting that a person earns their way into Heaven. This is not so in LDS, for precisely the same reason as Protestant systems... lest one should boast.

As has been pointed out, the quote itself betrays a bias against LDS as a Christian system anyway, so I wouldn't expect the original author to have gained an accurate understanding on the LDS perspective on this issue.

Chozon1 wrote: Elio's?

Like the pizza? It's good in a pinch.

Emwok wrote:Finding out that the Draugr lord you're fighting has an OP sword?

I don't think I get the reference...?

Bruce_Campbell wrote:How are you doing? I know it's been a rough summer for you and your family.

Doing alright, thanks. Mainly we're dreading the upcoming holidays, since Mom's favorite holiday was always Christmas, and we always went to her place for it (and Thanksgiving, too.) This is gonna suck.

Elio Motors

I want one. O_o So cheap, so stylish...So Tron.

Drinking too much water without even realizing it?

Wow... That's almost cool....

And that's something I need to do more.

Almost cool? I'd say it's dang cool. Diggity dang, even. 'Course, I live 13 miles from the closest city, so gas mileage is a huge deal for me.

Quoting TV characters without even realizing it? O_o