SNL attacks Christianity

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Re: SNL attacks Christianity

Postby ArcticFox » Thu Apr 21, 2016 8:40 am

I can't take this discussion seriously if we keep calling this an attack. It reminds me of when people used to claim that the Simpsons was an attack on the idea of the American family.
Dude, the thing you gotta realize is that skit was prettymuch a showcase of several of the worst things Christianity gets accused of, whether the accusation is fair or not.

-Christians want to deny basic services to gays? Check.
-Christians are anti-semitic? Check.
-Christians act like martyrs? Check.

It only amazes me they left out an accusation of Christians wanting to control women by denying them abortions. Maybe I just missed it.

If you're going to do satire, fine. Do satire, but this was handled sloppily. I can't stress this enough... too often people's perceptions will be influenced by this material.
Regardless, Fey nailed the impression that Palin is a few pews short of a full church. It isn't SNL's fault that people took one line and ran with it.
SNL has a ton of influence in pop culture. They know that. That means they have a certain responsibility to be aware of how this material is going to come across.
Hey man, those guys are awesome! :P And... also one of them is currently running a rehab farm for (IIRC) abused farm animals. And the other is on CBS. REGARDLESS, I don't see what your point is. Those guys are pretty sharp dudes, anyway, and they have a pretty good eye for politics [that most conservatives would disagree with, etc. etc.]
SNL writers are left-leaning, and in other news, water is wet. I get that. So are the majority of the viewers. That means they're not likely to carefully scrutinize how realistic this satire is. "Yuk yuk, it's funny 'cause Christians hate gay people."
In all seriousness, what is your argument? That we remove satire from TV?
Of course not. You know I'm against censorship. I have a problem with people telling me (and other Christians who find this troubling) that we should just be quiet and stop making mountains out of molehills. It's like everybody else can be offended by every other thing on TV but the instant Christians speak up we get a lecture on how we shouldn't worry about nothing.

I actually liked the South Park 2 part episode in which they showed how readily television will ridicule Christianity in the most visceral way, but is absolutely terrified of even the slightest hint of offense toward Muslims. In the same episode that Comedy Central edited to block out the visual depiction of Mohammed, we were treated to the sight of Jesus dancing around and pooping on President Bush.

LGBT crowd gets offended at a villain in a movie being gay: "We deeply apologize and we'll make sure to have more positive gay characters!"
Black people get offended by some idiotic comment by a shock jock: "We deeply apologize and have fired the individual responsible."
Muslims get offended by a picture of Mohammed: "We apologize and will never do that again. Please don't kill us."
Christians get offended by an SNL skit: "Shut up nobody's persecuting you."

Know what I think? I think we ought to be aware of EVERYBODY'S feelings and views, and make a reasonable effort not to be jerks to each other. How about that? At the same time, maybe what we all need is a thicker skin so that when the occasional jerk pops up or someone causes offense by mistake, we can handle it like grownups instead of looking for someone to punish.

That said, when something like this triggers a reaction among Christians it isn't because we feel like the most persecuted group EVAR. It's because we see the direction things are going, and the future doesn't look so bright.
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Re: RE: Re: SNL attacks Christianity

Postby Yantelope » Thu Apr 21, 2016 8:44 am

You're comparing the government forcing you to sell your own products to "undesirables", to a situation where the government forces you to start selling a product you didn't even have. Totally different.
Preparing a wedding cake is in many ways an art. Wedding cakes specifically are not just food for subsistence but part of a celebration. When taking part in that celebration violates your religious beliefs then it's perfectly reasonable to decline. It's exactly the same as declining to prepare certain types of foods that violate your beliefs.

If bakeries just made cakes detached from the celebration then it'd probably be fine for most Christians to make just cakes. If you know what actually happened in real life, Christian bakers were specifically targeted to make cakes for Gay weddings and their offers to make "just cakes" were refused. When the Gay couples refuses to accept "just cakes" they cannot then argue that they should make them because they are "just cakes".
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Re: RE: Re: SNL attacks Christianity

Postby ArcticFox » Thu Apr 21, 2016 9:15 am

If bakeries just made cakes detached from the celebration then it'd probably be fine for most Christians to make just cakes. If you know what actually happened in real life, Christian bakers were specifically targeted to make cakes for Gay weddings and their offers to make "just cakes" were refused. When the Gay couples refuses to accept "just cakes" they cannot then argue that they should make them because they are "just cakes".

This is true. There's a massive amount of dishonesty in the way these incidents are portrayed. For example, the CO baker that got threatened with jail time actually had regular customers who came in and bought stuff all the time. When they wanted him to do their wedding cake, he declined but this couple was quite understanding and went to a different bakery. The problem is another couple heard about this, and drive an hour out of their way to come and demand that this baker bake them a wedding cake, knowing he would refuse. Mind you, there were other bakeries that were closer to their home that they could have gone to, but they came looking for trouble.

Of course, the baker initially refused but later offered a compromise like what you described: He would bake a wedding cake and sell it to them, but they'd have to put on their own cake topper, etc. If they were a reasonable couple of people, that might have been enough, but remember they were here specifically to cause trouble and make a political statement, so they refused that. As a result, a simple bakery owner almost got imprisoned by the state for refusing to participate in an event that violated his beliefs, all because an unreasonable couple of trolls wanted to make a political crapstorm out of it.

Of course, that isn't the media's version. The media's version held that this baker was just a hateful homophobe who regularly denied service to gay people out of pure, malicious spite.

And if you're wondering how I know all this, it's because my wife went in there and got the story first hand, right from the owner.
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Re: SNL attacks Christianity

Postby ChickenSoup » Thu Apr 21, 2016 10:30 am

If you're going to do satire, fine. Do satire, but this was handled sloppily.
This is SNL we're talking about. :P

But as I said before: what action would you propose?
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Re: SNL attacks Christianity

Postby ArcticFox » Thu Apr 21, 2016 11:47 am

This is SNL we're talking about. :P
Touche'
But as I said before: what action would you propose?
No action. I just don't like being told not to worry when I can see where the wind is blowing.
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Re: SNL attacks Christianity

Postby Bruce_Campbell » Fri Apr 22, 2016 10:23 am

I think I'd feel a little more sympathetic if the movie(s) they were ripping on weren't some of the worst attacks on atheists out there.
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Re: SNL attacks Christianity

Postby ccgr » Fri Apr 22, 2016 10:27 am

I haven't seen the second, may wait for a rental out of curiosity

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Re: SNL attacks Christianity

Postby ArcticFox » Fri Apr 22, 2016 10:40 am

I think I'd feel a little more sympathetic if the movie(s) they were ripping on weren't some of the worst attacks on atheists out there.
I remember a thread in the movies section in which Arch was critical of the first God's Not Dead because he felt the Atheist perspective wasn't fairly represented... and that bewildered me in the same way this comment does... Why would you guys expect a movie, which is basically a feel-good movie for Christians (and a form of propaganda to that end) to represent both sides in the first place? SNL isn't supposed to be for a nice audience the way GnD is. I don't think it's a valid comparison.
"He who takes offense when no offense is intended is a fool, and he who takes offense when offense is intended is a greater fool."
—Brigham Young

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Re: SNL attacks Christianity

Postby BlockHeadLewie » Fri Apr 22, 2016 10:43 am

I only make this post to make a statement, slightly off topic but still maintains the integrity of this thread.
I don't care. It's that simple. I want to care, to be sure, but I just can't. One thing stops me in my tracks: They somehow know the truth but ignore it in favor of entertainment.
God's Word is quite clear on how The Truth will be distorted, altered, redefined and even removed from people's hearts. Those of us who renew our minds daily, pray with expectation and love without restrictions can easily discern even the slightest differences in The Truth. We do not judge unless we judge righteously, and even then we are careful in how we do so.
SNL isn't about the truth and I doubt it ever was. It's about entertainment. God's Word isn't about entertainment, it's about The Truth and always has been.
LARGE difference I would say.
Well how do you like that? I did stay on topic. Wow, I scare myself sometimes!
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Re: SNL attacks Christianity

Postby ChickenSoup » Fri Apr 22, 2016 11:08 am

I think I'd feel a little more sympathetic if the movie(s) they were ripping on weren't some of the worst attacks on atheists out there.
I remember a thread in the movies section in which Arch was critical of the first God's Not Dead because he felt the Atheist perspective wasn't fairly represented... and that bewildered me in the same way this comment does... Why would you guys expect a movie, which is basically a feel-good movie for Christians (and a form of propaganda to that end) to represent both sides in the first place? SNL isn't supposed to be for a nice audience the way GnD is. I don't think it's a valid comparison.
And everyone is surprised when my response to Christians' reactions to videos like this is "Get over it."

And also,
SNL isn't supposed to be for a nice audience the way GnD is.
...what?
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Re: SNL attacks Christianity

Postby Deepfreeze32 » Fri Apr 22, 2016 11:16 am

SNL isn't supposed to be for a nice audience the way GnD is.
...what?
I think he misspelled "niche" but I might be wrong. :lol:

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Re: SNL attacks Christianity

Postby ArcticFox » Fri Apr 22, 2016 11:31 am

And everyone is surprised when my response to Christians' reactions to videos like this is "Get over it."
SNL isn't directed at a single demographic. It's nominally supposed to be for everybody.

And also,
SNL isn't supposed to be for a nice audience the way GnD is.
...what?
Sorry, typo. Someone was talking to me when I was typing that. I meant to say "niche audience."
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Re: SNL attacks Christianity

Postby ChickenSoup » Fri Apr 22, 2016 11:56 am

And everyone is surprised when my response to Christians' reactions to videos like this is "Get over it."
SNL isn't directed at a single demographic. It's nominally supposed to be for everybody.
I would argue that shows like SNL are for everybody in the sense that they're supposed to satirize everybody. South Park does a much better job on that front, but as I've made clear, I'm not arguing for the quality of SNL :P

If you don't think they ever make fun of both sides, watch their parody of the democratic debates. XD Obviously, they're biased one way or another... but why wouldn't they be? They're free to do so. No one is forced to watch it.
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Re: SNL attacks Christianity

Postby ArcticFox » Fri Apr 22, 2016 12:28 pm

I would argue that shows like SNL are for everybody in the sense that they're supposed to satirize everybody. South Park does a much better job on that front, but as I've made clear, I'm not arguing for the quality of SNL :P

If you don't think they ever make fun of both sides, watch their parody of the democratic debates. XD Obviously, they're biased one way or another... but why wouldn't they be? They're free to do so. No one is forced to watch it.
I don't have a problem with satire, but satire should be rooted in truth. That SNL skit makes it seem like Christians are anti-semitic, or that Christian movies promote anti-semitism, or that we would deny basic goods and services for people for being gay. This plays into false stereotypes and you know as well as I that if they did that with any other group, there'd be hell to pay.

That said, I wouldn't silence them if I had the power to do so. I just resent being told that we shouldn't have concerns, especially by people who don't even have a dog in the race. (By that last, I don't mean you. I mean those who don't consider themselves Christians.)
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Re: SNL attacks Christianity

Postby ChickenSoup » Fri Apr 22, 2016 12:45 pm

I would argue that shows like SNL are for everybody in the sense that they're supposed to satirize everybody. South Park does a much better job on that front, but as I've made clear, I'm not arguing for the quality of SNL :P

If you don't think they ever make fun of both sides, watch their parody of the democratic debates. XD Obviously, they're biased one way or another... but why wouldn't they be? They're free to do so. No one is forced to watch it.
I don't have a problem with satire, but satire should be rooted in truth. That SNL skit makes it seem like Christians are anti-semitic, or that Christian movies promote anti-semitism, or that we would deny basic goods and services for people for being gay. This plays into false stereotypes and you know as well as I that if they did that with any other group, there'd be hell to pay.

That said, I wouldn't silence them if I had the power to do so. I just resent being told that we shouldn't have concerns, especially by people who don't even have a dog in the race. (By that last, I don't mean you. I mean those who don't consider themselves Christians.)
I mean, there was a single line about the lawyer being Jewish, so I'm not sure why we're getting hung up on that.

Anyway, say what you will about false stereotypes, but this stereotype does have some basis in truth. Perhaps not in the particular cases of the bakeries (it's honestly been too long since that happened for me to remember the details), but having been surrounded by fundamentalist conservative Christians for 20 out of 23 years of my life... yeah.
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