Comotto wrote:While I find this discussion interesting and a testament to the participants knowledge of scripture, my opinion is that an individual's belief in the existence of OSAS to be pointless. If I choose to live my life as a follower of Christ, my faith in Him should bring me home. Why would I care in OSAS unless I decided to turn to the dark side after accepting Him? Just saying.
CARZ
YAY! I learned to quote somebody! I feel accomplished.
It matters because it is a matter of eternal security, if one is not sure if he/she is going to go to heaven then they are in a constant state of fear and worry, and that is not good for a Christian.
But, I see where you're coming from and I agree.
While works isn't the subject of this topic, I will follow you down this rabbit trail, it could be fun.
Ephesians 2:10 says we are created for good works. Not that good works get us into heaven. It just states that God wants us to be doing good things to bring Him honor and glory.
I don't understand how a mental/spiritual decision is an action or a work. Elaborate maybe?
Also I don't believe in pre-destination as I have said previously so please do not in any way assume I do.
I'm implying that no works need to be done to be saved because I don't think that a decision of the soul is a work. We don't DO anything, we decide on something.
Baptism is a symbolic action that Christians do once they have been saved, it is a way of telling the world that we have put our faith in Jesus Christ and are saved. Colossians 2:12 and Romans 6:4 Both say that by baptism we were buried with Christ and raised with Christ. We cannot literally be buried and raised with Christ, that is impossible. So it must be symbolic. That is all baptism is, a symbol of our devotion to Christ.
However, this topic is not about baptism so let's get back to the matter at hand.
Some verses I have found about eternal security I'd like you to read and consider what they are saying.
John 10:28 says we are firmly held in God's hand once we have been saved and that no one can take us out. So, if we are in God's hand and cannot be removed, how could we lose salvation? That is impossible, neither we nor anyone else is physically or spiritually able to remove us from God's hand. And He certainly wouldn't let an un-believer in His presence, so it is contradictory to scripture to say we can lose salvation if God won't even let us leave!
John 6:37 says Christ will never cast us out. Simple as that, not for any work, thought or word will He cast us out.
Romans 11:29 says the Gifts of God are irrevocable. Again saying we can lose this gift of salvation is contradictory to scripture. Here the Bible clearly states that any gift God gives us, cannot be removed.
2 Corinthians 1:22 says that God has put a seal on our hearts and has given us the Holy Spirit as a guarantee. So, if the Holy Spirit, whose sole purpose is to help the believe in his/her path towards heaven, is within us, how would the Spirit ever let us abandon that path and leave God? That goes against exactly the reason we have the Holy Spirit in us.
My signature verse(s), Romans 8:38-39 clearly lists many things that cannot remove us from God's love.
Ephesians 1:13-14 again says we are sealed by the Holy Spirit and that it is a guarantee for our inheritance in Heaven. So, if we have been saved, we have the Holy Spirit in us, and that Spirit guarantees we will be in Heaven to receive an inheritance.
John 6:40 says that whoever believes will be raised up on the last day. No conditions, no frills, no fine print, just that, when Christ returns He will take all believers who have lived and are living up to Heaven. It also states that EVERYONE who believes in Christ will be saved and raised up. So, anyone who has, is or will be saved is going to be taken to Heaven.
Romans 11:6 tackles that works issues a little more. If God offers us salvation by grace through faith, then that is all it takes. Saying we need works to get to heaven is saying God's grace is not enough and that God needs our help to save us.
Hebrews 13:5 says God will never leave us nor forsake us. If someone decides not to be saved anymore, how could God indwell that person? He couldn't! But God Himself says He will never leave us, so that idea contradicts scripture.
Ephesians 4:30 again says we are sealed by the Holy Spirit for the day of redemption. What action of ours could ever overcome the Holy Spirit?
2 Corinthians again says the Spirit is a guarantee.
John 4:14 says we will never be thirsty again once we have been saved.
Romans 9:16 says that it does not depend on the man but on God's mercy.
John 14:15-16 says that the Helper (holy Spirit) will be with us forever. Now the Holy Spirit could not be in an un-saved human being, so it could not be in a Christian who decides to reject God and his/her salvation. Thus the person who does so must never have had been saved before.
Romans 8:1 states there is no condemnation between us and God. If a person rejects his/her salvation then their would suddenly be condemnation between them & God and everything God has given them, (the holy spirit, an inheritance, a place in His hand, peace and guidance and wisdom) would all be revoked. Yet, God's gifts cannot be removed.
Ecclesiastes 3:14 clearly states whatever God does endures forever, nothing can be added to it or taken away from it. It lasts, forever. It is ETERNAL.
John 1:12 states that those who believe are Children of God. And if we are children we have then all of the gifts God has given us and we are safely kept in His hand and cannot be removed.
Hebrews 5:9 says that Christ is the source of Eternal Salvation. Eternal Salvation... not much clearer than that.
John 3:36 says those who are Children of God have the Son, but those who do not have the Son, then God's wrath is on them. So, for one to suddenly reject God and his/her salvation not only means all of God's gifts would have to be removed (which is impossible) but also that they are now on a path towards Hell. Why would God let that happen?
Galatians 4:6-7 states we are sons and heirs of Gods. AS I said before, you cannot change what family you are born into. Likewise we cannot decide to leave God's family and join the world.
Starting in John 6:50 Christ talks about how He is the living bread and if anyone partakes of the living bread he will never die. That would contradict the idea of losing our salvation.
Many verses here that contradict the idea of losing our salvation.