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Tony Campolo and Homosexuality

Posted: Mon Apr 04, 2016 11:50 pm
by ArchAngel
I enjoyed listening to Tony Campolo on Homosexuality, not because I agreed with him, but because his passion for truth and his humility in the search for it, and his empathy for others really shows. Listening him and his wife discuss and debate over the issue is pretty great.


Recently, he came out with the following statement:
As a social scientist, I have concluded that sexual orientation is almost never a choice and I have seen how damaging it can be to try to “cure” someone from being gay. As a Christian, my responsibility is not to condemn or reject gay people, but rather to love and embrace them, and to endeavor to draw them into the fellowship of the Church. When we sing the old invitation hymn, “Just As I Am”, I want us to mean it, and I want my gay and lesbian brothers and sisters to know it is true for them too.

Rest assured that I have already heard – and in some cases made – every kind of biblical argument against gay marriage…Obviously, people of good will can and do read the scriptures very differently when it comes to controversial issues, and I am painfully aware that there are ways I could be wrong about this one.

However, I am old enough to remember when we in the Church made strong biblical cases for keeping women out of teaching roles in the Church, and when divorced and remarried people often were excluded from fellowship altogether on the basis of scripture. Not long before that, some Christians even made biblical cases supporting slavery. Many of those people were sincere believers, but most of us now agree that they were wrong. I am afraid we are making the same kind of mistake again, which is why I am speaking out.
http://religiondispatches.org/why-tony- ... ing-point/


I have a good deal of sympathy for those who struggle between their feelings of empathy and what is taught in what they believe to be the word of god. And to struggle with it openly and genuinely, I respect that.

Re: Tony Campolo and Homosexuality

Posted: Tue Apr 05, 2016 12:56 pm
by ccgr
What an interesting debate & marriage. Thanks for sharing the video!

While I believe that Christians are to love homosexuals, the Bible is against that lifestyle and while they are welcome to worship with the rest of us sinners (we all sin BTW) I certainly don't support gay marriage within the church (court weddings are lawful and I respect that right)

I get that people have little say in their sexual orientation but the Biblical way to handle same sex attraction is to not act on it. If they do, that's between them and God because I will not judge them.

Re: Tony Campolo and Homosexuality

Posted: Tue Apr 05, 2016 6:57 pm
by ArchAngel
Do you think that some Christians can believe both fully in scripture and also that homosexuality is not a sin?

If not, what do you think about this position?
https://www.gaychristian.net/justins_view.php
(I've posted this before, but I'm curious to see not necessarily if you agree with Justin, but that if you think Justin is being honest with himself and is walking according to his conscience. To put it more colloquially, "I disagree with Justin, but I see where he is coming from.")

Re: Tony Campolo and Homosexuality

Posted: Tue Apr 05, 2016 8:05 pm
by ccgr
Not really, despite turning it into a gray area like that article does, I think the Bible is pretty clear on its stance. Can homosexuals be Christians? Sure, no doubt about it. Can they be treated better by the church? Yes, totally. Do homoesexual couples love each other the same as heterosexual couple? Definitely and I am not going to hurt them or stand in their way to get married by the state or by a church that is willing to perform the ceremony. However, I believe it's Biblically wrong and will support any church that does not want to perform a homosexual wedding service. With that said I do not protest or harm homosexuals and nor do I treat them any differently then anyone else.

An adulterous couple can surely love one another, but I don't condone the actions of someone sleeping with another person's spouse. Can it be justified if the cheated on spouse was a jerk or abusive? Perhaps, but Biblically it's still wrong.

Re: Tony Campolo and Homosexuality

Posted: Wed Apr 06, 2016 2:15 pm
by ArcticFox
Implicit in this statement:
However, I am old enough to remember when we in the Church made strong biblical cases for keeping women out of teaching roles in the Church, and when divorced and remarried people often were excluded from fellowship altogether on the basis of scripture. Not long before that, some Christians even made biblical cases supporting slavery. Many of those people were sincere believers, but most of us now agree that they were wrong. I am afraid we are making the same kind of mistake again, which is why I am speaking out.
Is the notion that the church is making a mistake regarding homosexuals. To the extent that they're ostracized I would agree, since, as ccgr said, we're to show love and compassion, not judgement. The thing is, that's not the same as treating homosexual behavior as sinless. I dislike the notion that because the church has changed in some areas over the years that it must necessarily eventually change to accommodate this.

Might that one day happen? It's not for me to say, so my answer is "Maybe." If it does, it shouldn't be from pressure from secular society but rather from direction from the Lord. Guys like Campolo mean well, but are motivated by a desire to accommodate new cultural norms rather than a genuine desire to understand these issues Biblically.

Re: Tony Campolo and Homosexuality

Posted: Wed Apr 06, 2016 6:14 pm
by ChickenSoup
I've made my opinions known about this :P

Re: Tony Campolo and Homosexuality

Posted: Mon Apr 11, 2016 4:28 pm
by ArcticFox
While Matt Walsh isn't very diplomatic, I do agree with his position far more strongly.
It’s one thing to crawl back to God and beg for forgiveness, it’s another to stand there and say you don’t need forgiveness because God was wrong when he called your sin a sin.

Re: Tony Campolo and Homosexuality

Posted: Mon Apr 11, 2016 9:20 pm
by ArchAngel
Yeah, it's not particularly diplomatic to proclaim your perspective as "God." Or is it the strawman argument that is undiplomatic? No, wait, that's just poor reasoning skills.

I'd back Tony Campolo over Matt Walsh 10 out of 10 times because Campolo shows humility and an appreciation for nuance and complexity in the face of Truth while Walsh shows no such compulsion.
It's more than this, too. Campolo showed genuine care for people, seeing people who struggle with their feelings and beliefs, while Walsh prefers to characterize them as those who point at God and say he's wrong. I wonder if he thanks God that he's not like those sinners.

Re: Tony Campolo and Homosexuality

Posted: Mon Apr 11, 2016 11:56 pm
by ArcticFox
I wonder if he thanks God that he's not like those sinners.
If you'd ever actually read Walsh's blog, you'd know the answer, but I'm not surprised you assume he's like that.

Compassion is a good thing, and of course we ought to show compassion to all, including people who embrace sin and call it virtue, but there's a difference between compassion and enabling. It isn't compassion to treat sin as virtue and pretend it's what Jesus would have done.

Re: Tony Campolo and Homosexuality

Posted: Tue Apr 12, 2016 3:39 pm
by Bruce_Campbell
I've read tons of Matt Walsh, and there is little doubt in my mind that he thinks that way, even if he doesn't state it outright. The man really is some of the worst Christianity has to offer without going full Westboro Baptist. And it has everything to do with his cocky attitude, although a lot of his positions are awful too. Everyone who disagrees with him is not just wrong according to Walsh, they are stupid and/or evil. There is no discussion to be had with that kind of person.

Re: Tony Campolo and Homosexuality

Posted: Tue Apr 12, 2016 4:13 pm
by ArcticFox
I won't defend Walsh's abrasive tone, but I understand it. I will say he readily, and often, admits to being a sinner and as imperfect as anyone, and I am inclined to think he means it. He's a hardcore Catholic, and that's part of the culture. When I see a 'holier than thou' attitude it most often comes from other sectors of Christianity I won't mention right now.

All that said, I appreciate that Walsh doesn't mince words. He says what he thinks. Period. We need more of that. Plus, he's from Baltimore. That's just how it is here. 8)

Re: Tony Campolo and Homosexuality

Posted: Tue Apr 12, 2016 8:20 pm
by ChickenSoup
All that said, I appreciate that Walsh doesn't mince words. He says what he thinks. Period. We need more of that. Plus, he's from Baltimore. That's just how it is here. 8)
Overbearing?

Re: Tony Campolo and Homosexuality

Posted: Wed Apr 13, 2016 1:46 pm
by ArcticFox
Absolutely.

Re: Tony Campolo and Homosexuality

Posted: Wed Apr 13, 2016 5:39 pm
by Bruce_Campbell
No, I'm not going to give him credit for being from Baltimore. The man is a virus.

He ranted and raved about how awful it was that Leena Dunham wrote about touching her younger sister (which I agree is gross) while rationalizing the fact that Josh Duggar's family allowed him to stay in the same house that his victims lived in, allowing him to eventually repeat his abuse.

He called suicide victims cowards the day Robin Williams killed himself.

He insists that people who don't follow his particular Christian and political standards are stupid and evil, but throws temper tantrums and acts like a martyr when other Christians have anything negative to say about catholicism.

Oh, and there's a clip of him going around Youtube where he mocks people in wheelchairs. He was fired from his radio station job for that, BTW.

Really, the man is a turd. Christians and Conservatives can do better.

Re: Tony Campolo and Homosexuality

Posted: Wed Apr 13, 2016 7:12 pm
by ArcticFox
So now that we've had a tour of how horrible a person he is, what has he said about this issue that you guys take exception with?