Magic minecraft Christians post 2

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Magic minecraft Christians post 2

Postby Dirkdigdeep » Fri Feb 05, 2016 9:48 pm

Those were some great responses from everyone and I read them all. And rather than try to make a reply to each persons comments , which i find frustrating and schismatic to the dialogue: Let's regroup and look at some biblical points. Remember now i PLAY the game, but wish i could have been done with a science theme for upgrading tools and other things to deal with the " aliens" lol. Seriously I would LOVE to see a plugin that would convert all these things to a science fiction theme. Why not take it into space? 1) The " violence" is minimal : gore, blood, graphic content. I choose to never play PVP. The killing of animals is a choice ( eating meat) and is very reality oriented to real life. There is just too much creative potential and potential to teach Christian community and helping here. 2) How many of you have read clear through the entire ending story and been able to catalog the many religious and occultic and new age themes interwoven therein ? its actually quite deep and quite ungodly in that content. 3) a] What DOES God say about the occult magic and just how far does GOD wish us to go? b] What DO we need to know about the devils devices? And, c] Would not a thorough knowledge of God's ways and word automatically protect us from the devils devices?
Now form some verses, which BTW i found sadly lacking in all your replies to the first post on this subject. 2Co 6:14-18 Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness? (15) And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel? (16) And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. (17) Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you, (18) And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty. This web site has a lot of relevant ones and some not so relevant ( go figure) https://www.openbible.info/topics/witchcraft But THIS web site gets more to the point on how God sees this: http://biblereasons.com/witchcraft/ And this site makes a strong case against it to> http://christiananswers.net/q-eden/edn-occult.html PLEASE READ THE WEBSITES, they are not that long!

(17) Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you,

SO: what is my response to this? (Hoping for the sci fi plug in soonest lol ) I realize that this is a game , but it like so much we see today is a "gateway drug", to misuse that term slightly, for the ungrounded, uneducated in scriptures. Call it a baby step, a little compromise, a "little fox that destroys the vine" [song of solomon 2:15). IF we as Christians do not dismiss it out of hand and acknowledge it we are then protected from its effectsto a great degree. Heb_5:14 But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil. We are under grace, and have liberty BUT: 1Co_8:9 But take heed lest by any means this liberty of yours become a stumblingblock to them that are weak. Gal_5:13 For, brethren, ye have been called unto liberty; only use not liberty for an occasion to the flesh, but by love serve one another. And: 1Co 10:26-33 For the earth is the Lord's, and the fulness thereof. (27) If any of them that believe not bid you to a feast, and ye be disposed to go; whatsoever is set before you, eat, asking no question for conscience sake. (28) But if any man say unto you, This is offered in sacrifice unto idols, eat not for his sake that shewed it, and for conscience sake: for the earth is the Lord's, and the fulness thereof: (29) Conscience, I say, not thine own, but of the other: for why is my liberty judged of another man's conscience? (30) For if I by grace be a partaker, why am I evil spoken of for that for which I give thanks? (31) Whether therefore ye eat, or drink, or whatsoever ye do, do all to the glory of God. (32) Give none offence, neither to the Jews, nor to the Gentiles, nor to the church of God: (33) Even as I please all men in all things, not seeking mine own profit, but the profit of many, that they may be saved.
I am here because Christians are here, a game cannot defile me anyone more than meat offered to Idols can. ( no imputed uncleanness inherent in things) But only if we use this as an occasion to discuss these things in the light of Christ ( NOT dismiss them) can we gain benefit in Christ from them.
When I play, i dismiss the magic and refer to the old adage by Arthur C. Clark ( 2001 a space oddessy) : Any sufficiently advanced science tech, would appear as "magic" to a primitive culture." more or less lol. Not that I like Clarke, he was an anti christian bigot and fool by biblical definition, but the saying has merit apart from the monkey's descendant who spoke it.
lets NOT dismiss this issue as trivial! But let us use wisdom and knowledge and the right dividing of Gods word to address is properly.. And GET busy with that plugin!
bro John

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Re: Magic minecraft Christians post 2

Postby ArcticFox » Mon Feb 08, 2016 4:32 pm

How many of you have read clear through the entire ending story and been able to catalog the many religious and occultic and new age themes interwoven therein ? its actually quite deep and quite ungodly in that content.
Would you care to elaborate?
What DOES God say about the occult magic and just how far does GOD wish us to go?
What do you mean? How far we should play a game with magic content, or how far we should go in avoiding them?
What DO we need to know about the devils devices?
Beyond occult content in games?
Would not a thorough knowledge of God's ways and word automatically protect us from the devils devices?
No. Knowledge is one thing. Applying it is another.
Now form some verses, which BTW i found sadly lacking in all your replies to the first post on this subject.
We'll try to do better next time, sir. Please forgive us.

/sarcasm
2Co 6:14-18 Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness? (15) And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel? (16) And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. (17) Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you, (18) And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty.
If you're going to quote verses it would be super helpful if you'd provide some context or commentary on what point you're trying to make by quoting them. Just spamming Bible verses does not a good post make.

These verses discuss idolatry, specifically in connection with the First Commandment. What does this have to do with magic in Minecraft? Are you talking about some kind of idol worship in the context of the game?
I realize that this is a game , but it like so much we see today is a "gateway drug", to misuse that term slightly, for the ungrounded, uneducated in scriptures. Call it a baby step, a little compromise, a "little fox that destroys the vine" [song of solomon 2:15). IF we as Christians do not dismiss it out of hand and acknowledge it we are then protected from its effectsto a great degree.
So it sounds like you're suggesting that the game be avoided altogether to avoid making that little step. Is that correct? If so, then why do you still play it?
I am here because Christians are here, a game cannot defile me anyone more than meat offered to Idols can. ( no imputed uncleanness inherent in things) But only if we use this as an occasion to discuss these things in the light of Christ ( NOT dismiss them) can we gain benefit in Christ from them.
How can it not defile you? If, indeed exposure to such things constitute small steps, what immunizes you from them?
When I play, i dismiss the magic and refer to the old adage by Arthur C. Clark ( 2001 a space oddessy) : Any sufficiently advanced science tech, would appear as "magic" to a primitive culture." more or less lol. Not that I like Clarke, he was an anti christian bigot and fool by biblical definition, but the saying has merit apart from the monkey's descendant who spoke it.
No offense, but that sounds like a copout. "It isn't magic, it just looks like magic 'cause it's really high tech!" Minecraft is a game which features reanimated skeletons and zombies. There are also witches who live in swamp houses on stilts like Baba Yaga from folklore, who attacks you using the exact same potions you can brew yourself. This is magic, not tech. Enchanting a sword, armor or tool to make them more effective by applying runes is not a technological process. Minecraft contains magic. Period. If you aren't okay with that then you shouldn't play it. Contriving to call it high tech using Clarke's philosophy could be used to rationalize the magic system in practically any game.
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Re: Magic minecraft Christians post 2

Postby Deepfreeze32 » Mon Feb 08, 2016 6:51 pm

When I play, i dismiss the magic and refer to the old adage by Arthur C. Clark ( 2001 a space oddessy) : Any sufficiently advanced science tech, would appear as "magic" to a primitive culture." more or less lol. Not that I like Clarke, he was an anti christian bigot and fool by biblical definition, but the saying has merit apart from the monkey's descendant who spoke it.
No offense, but that sounds like a copout. "It isn't magic, it just looks like magic 'cause it's really high tech!" Minecraft is a game which features reanimated skeletons and zombies. There are also witches who live in swamp houses on stilts like Baba Yaga from folklore, who attacks you using the exact same potions you can brew yourself. This is magic, not tech. Enchanting a sword, armor or tool to make them more effective by applying runes is not a technological process. Minecraft contains magic. Period. If you aren't okay with that then you shouldn't play it. Contriving to call it high tech using Clarke's philosophy could be used to rationalize the magic system in practically any game.
You know, I'm going to have to contest this because I'm not sure I understand. How is enchanting by applying runes not, in some sense, a technological process?

Or more generally, what do you define as "magic" as clearly differentiated from technology?

The magic system in Jim Butcher's Dresden Files, for instance, is based on the laws of thermodynamics and is described in terms that are more technological than spiritual. Dresden is basically an atheist (Or at the very least, does not worship a god, though the existence and "realness" of the Christian god is very strongly implied), and he uses "enchanted" objects as tools to harness potential energy and focus it in directed bursts. The magic is independent of spiritualism and theism, in other words.

Is that "magic" or "technology" by your standards?

Sorry for the confrontational tone, but I think the real meat of this topic boils down to definitions.

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Re: Magic minecraft Christians post 2

Postby ArcticFox » Mon Feb 08, 2016 7:00 pm

I'm pretty sure Minecraft makes no attempt, anywhere, to define its magic system as some sort of technological process.

Don't get me wrong, I'm perfectly fine with magic in games, but let's call a spade a spade. The idea of runes being associated with enchantments and magical power isn't based on any notion of tech, it's based on neopaganism and the occult.

So while there may be a sort of mathematical process involved in their use, it's not technological because of it. In Minecraft you aren't applying a technology upgrade to a helmet ala Fallout 4. You're using magic spells. Where do you do your enchanting in Minecraft?

Is it on a workbench? Nope.
Is it in a furnace? Nope.
It's done on an enchanting table, on what's obviously a magical tome surrounded by runes floating in the air.

So if we want to call it some kind of mysterious alien technology in order to avoid calling it what it obviously is, then that's being dishonest with one's self.

Again, I have no problem with it personally. It's just inconsistent to pretend it's something else.
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Re: Magic minecraft Christians post 2

Postby Dirkdigdeep » Tue Feb 09, 2016 11:44 pm

When I play, i dismiss the magic and refer to the old adage by Arthur C. Clark ( 2001 a space oddessy) : Any sufficiently advanced science tech, would appear as "magic" to a primitive culture." more or less lol. Not that I like Clarke, he was an anti christian bigot and fool by biblical definition, but the saying has merit apart from the monkey's descendant who spoke it.
No offense, but that sounds like a copout. "It isn't magic, it just looks like magic 'cause it's really high tech!" Minecraft is a game which features reanimated skeletons and zombies. There are also witches who live in swamp houses on stilts like Baba Yaga from folklore, who attacks you using the exact same potions you can brew yourself. This is magic, not tech. Enchanting a sword, armor or tool to make them more effective by applying runes is not a technological process. Minecraft contains magic. Period. If you aren't okay with that then you shouldn't play it. Contriving to call it high tech using Clarke's philosophy could be used to rationalize the magic system in practically any game.
You know, I'm going to have to contest this because I'm not sure I understand. How is enchanting by applying runes not, in some sense, a technological process?

Or more generally, what do you define as "magic" as clearly differentiated from technology?

The magic system in Jim Butcher's Dresden Files, for instance, is based on the laws of thermodynamics and is described in terms that are more technological than spiritual. Dresden is basically an atheist (Or at the very least, does not worship a god, though the existence and "realness" of the Christian god is very strongly implied), and he uses "enchanted" objects as tools to harness potential energy and focus it in directed bursts. The magic is independent of spiritualism and theism, in other words.

Is that "magic" or "technology" by your standards?

Sorry for the confrontational tone, but I think the real meat of this topic boils down to definitions.

Apparently you have no understanding of the biblical based definitions of magic, which are based in a demonically derived and moral and spiritually powered attempt to exercise powers not innate to men nor to this world, and thereby have power over others by supernatural means. Where as technology operates within the parameters of the natural no matter how advanced, according to the laws of physics and without recourse to spirits / demons or any other supernatural or para-natural ( beyond natural) means. Paranormal events are phenomena described in popular culture, folklore and other non-scientific bodies of knowledge, whose existence within these contexts is described to lie beyond normal experience or scientific explanation. Just because it looks like magic , does not mean its para-natural.

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Re: New Member Introductions

Postby ConerJinkins123 » Wed Feb 10, 2016 10:00 am

I'm new here however I will say there are certain things I will not do in the game. (out obedience to Jesus and his words of what he said I can and can't do) I will not kill a thing in the game for gods commandment stating thou shall not kill. also I will not perform anything that entails witchcraft or enchantment, nor enter the nether, nor fly or spawn things or even hold onto anything enchanted or made using witchcraft. for this reason and out of obedience to Jesus. 1 samuel 15:23 KJV
"23 For rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft, and stubbornness is as iniquity and idolatry. Because thou hast rejected the word of the Lord, he hath also rejected thee from being king."

I will however, (if it is ok with you) build and help others in what other way I can, and will try not to cause strife or division. if I do speak the word of god, I will ask out of courtesy if they want to hear it first. if they say no, I will not force the word on them. but if they say yes, I will speak as Jesus leads me. = )

Jesus has given me permission to teleport and go through portals. (as for anything else that may be supernatural he has said for me to stay away from.)

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Re: Magic minecraft Christians post 2

Postby ArcticFox » Wed Feb 10, 2016 3:30 pm

Apparently you have no understanding of the biblical based definitions of magic
It wouldn't be a Dirk post if it weren't condescending and rude. :mrgreen:
, which are based in a demonically derived and moral and spiritually powered attempt to exercise powers not innate to men nor to this world, and thereby have power over others by supernatural means. Where as technology operates within the parameters of the natural no matter how advanced, according to the laws of physics and without recourse to spirits / demons or any other supernatural or para-natural ( beyond natural) means. Paranormal events are phenomena described in popular culture, folklore and other non-scientific bodies of knowledge, whose existence within these contexts is described to lie beyond normal experience or scientific explanation. Just because it looks like magic , does not mean its para-natural.
Hey man, if that contrivance works for you then more power to ya.

As I said in another tread last year, the magic we see in video games is still supernatural and occult in nature, but bears no resemblance to actual witchcraft as it's historically been practiced in human culture (which Scripture expressly forbids.) This is why I don't mind it in most games.
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Re: Magic minecraft Christians post 2

Postby BlockHeadLewie » Wed Feb 10, 2016 8:07 pm

Wow.
I could have made several quotes in this post and replied to them all, but it's not necessary. What I have to say fits both the topic as well as addresses posts made:
I won't go into a lot of detail but if we were to take literally the definition of 'magic' we would be in some serious trouble:
magic: noun
1. the art of producing illusions as entertainment by the use of sleight of hand, deceptive devices, etc.; legerdemain; conjuring: to pull a rabbit out of a hat by magic.
2. the art of producing a desired effect or result through the use of incantation or various other techniques that presumably assure human control of supernatural agencies or the forces of nature.
Compare contagious magic, imitative magic, sympathetic magic.
3. the use of this art: "Magic, it was believed, could drive illness from the body."
4. the effects produced: "the magic of recovery."
5. power or influence exerted through this art: "a wizard of great magic."
6. any extraordinary or mystical influence, charm, power, etc.: the magic in a great name; the magic of music; the magic of spring.
7. (initial capital letter) the U.S. code name for information from decrypting machine-enciphered Japanese wireless messages before and during World War II.
and during World War II.

adjective
8. employed in magic: magic spells; magic dances; magic rites.
9. mysteriously enchanting; magical: magic beauty.
10 of, relating to, or due to magic.
11. producing the effects of magic; magical: a magic touch.

verb (used with object), magicked, magicking.
12. to create, transform, move, etc., by or as if by magic: "I magicked him into a medieval knight."
By this set of definitions alone these are the things we are guilty of EVERY DAY:
Use of a vehicle like a car. (Where's the horse? Must be magic!)
Having a special evening with someone special without letting them know how special it was. (So much for a magical evening.)
Most doctors would be suspect. (When they 'work their magic' to heal us.)
We would have to rid ourselves of matches, lighters and maybe even flint/steel. (It looks like magic to some.)
Microwaves would be taboo. (It also looks like magic.)
So much for TV shows, movies and cartoons. (My grandpa always talked about the 'magic picture box'.)

I could go on a little, but I think this is enough to get my point across. Yep, you guessed it: Our own understanding of the word 'magic' and how it gets in the way.
With that I'll be shutting down this (magic) box called a computer and heading out to catch a bus with my (magic) card that allows me to get on for free.
For the record, I am MAGIC:

Mostly
Against
Generously
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PEACE!
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If God is my Pilot and fully in control of the flight, I guess that makes me a Steward on the plane. How may I serve you?

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Re: Magic minecraft Christians post 2

Postby ArcticFox » Wed Feb 10, 2016 8:21 pm

I won't go into a lot of detail but if we were to take literally the definition of 'magic' we would be in some serious trouble:
That's why discernment is useful here. We can talk all day about the nitty grittty definition of what magic is and all have a slightly different take on it but we're all going to agree that a car isn't a magical device and neither is a computer or anything that goes on in a doctor's office. The point of Arthur C Clarke's quote about sufficiently advanced technology wasn't to suggest that there's no difference between magic and technology, but rather to point out that people with less knowledge may tend to describe what they see as magical because they don't know any better. Maybe it's like the way Potter Stewart described pornography when he said, roughly "I may not be able to define it but I know it when I see it."

Anybody who plays video games knows basically what magic is and how it's handled in pop culture, movies and gaming. Each of us, as Christians, have to decide what's harmful and what isn't, and then stick to it. Would I play a game that required me to summon demons? No, I don't think that I would. Would I play a game that required me to engage in Voodoo? Nope. Those are things that are too close to reality and what's forbidden in Scripture. Meanwhile, a game where I can cast heal spells or buff the party for better damage? Sure. It's entirely fantastical. Both still count as magic though, for the purpose of any meaningful discussion.
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Re: Magic minecraft Christians post 2

Postby Dirkdigdeep » Thu Feb 11, 2016 7:30 pm

When I play, i dismiss the magic and refer to the old adage by Arthur C. Clark ( 2001 a space oddessy) : Any sufficiently advanced science tech, would appear as "magic" to a primitive culture." more or less lol. Not that I like Clarke, he was an anti christian bigot and fool by biblical definition, but the saying has merit apart from the monkey's descendant who spoke it.
No offense, but that sounds like a copout. "It isn't magic, it just looks like magic 'cause it's really high tech!" Minecraft is a game which features reanimated skeletons and zombies. There are also witches who live in swamp houses on stilts like Baba Yaga from folklore, who attacks you using the exact same potions you can brew yourself. This is magic, not tech. Enchanting a sword, armor or tool to make them more effective by applying runes is not a technological process. Minecraft contains magic. Period. If you aren't okay with that then you shouldn't play it. Contriving to call it high tech using Clarke's philosophy could be used to rationalize the magic system in practically any game.
You know, I'm going to have to contest this because I'm not sure I understand. How is enchanting by applying runes not, in some sense, a technological process?

Or more generally, what do you define as "magic" as clearly differentiated from technology?

The magic system in Jim Butcher's Dresden Files, for instance, is based on the laws of thermodynamics and is described in terms that are more technological than spiritual. Dresden is basically an atheist (Or at the very least, does not worship a god, though the existence and "realness" of the Christian god is very strongly implied), and he uses "enchanted" objects as tools to harness potential energy and focus it in directed bursts. The magic is independent of spiritualism and theism, in other words.

Is that "magic" or "technology" by your standards?

Sorry for the confrontational tone, but I think the real meat of this topic boils down to definitions.

you missed my point entirely . i did not say it was not a representation of magic, i said i would like to SEE it changed in theme to a sci fi form where EVERYTHING could have a different interpretation. the " witch" would be a mad scientist with chemicals or drigs or bacterias whatever, the tools can be hardened by exposure to radiations or treatments there are many plausible ways to represent these things. lighten up !

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Re: Magic minecraft Christians post 2

Postby BlockHeadLewie » Thu Feb 11, 2016 10:47 pm

@Dirk:
I have to ask this in order to understand where your mind and heart are.
What is the difference between not wanting to be involved with magic and a mad scientist with chemicals and/or radiation & etc?
One could take this as you saying, "I am against magic but alchemy is ok."
I'm not saying I am, I'm just asking...
Peace!
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Re: Magic minecraft Christians post 2

Postby Dirkdigdeep » Sun Feb 14, 2016 8:32 pm

@Dirk:
I have to ask this in order to understand where your mind and heart are.
What is the difference between not wanting to be involved with magic and a mad scientist with chemicals and/or radiation & etc?
One could take this as you saying, "I am against magic but alchemy is ok."
I'm not saying I am, I'm just asking...
Peace!
8)
a science theme is not "alchemy" . Alchemy was what started some peoples journy to science, but they are horses of a different color.

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Re: Magic minecraft Christians post 2

Postby Dirkdigdeep » Sun Feb 14, 2016 8:35 pm

Wow.
I could have made several quotes in this post and replied to them all, but it's not necessary. What I have to say fits both the topic as well as addresses posts made:
I won't go into a lot of detail but if we were to take literally the definition of 'magic' we would be in some serious trouble:
magic: noun
1. the art of producing illusions as entertainment by the use of sleight of hand, deceptive devices, etc.; legerdemain; conjuring: to pull a rabbit out of a hat by magic.
2. the art of producing a desired effect or result through the use of incantation or various other techniques that presumably assure human control of supernatural agencies or the forces of nature.
Compare contagious magic, imitative magic, sympathetic magic.
3. the use of this art: "Magic, it was believed, could drive illness from the body."
4. the effects produced: "the magic of recovery."
5. power or influence exerted through this art: "a wizard of great magic."
6. any extraordinary or mystical influence, charm, power, etc.: the magic in a great name; the magic of music; the magic of spring.
7. (initial capital letter) the U.S. code name for information from decrypting machine-enciphered Japanese wireless messages before and during World War II.
and during World War II.

adjective
8. employed in magic: magic spells; magic dances; magic rites.
9. mysteriously enchanting; magical: magic beauty.
10 of, relating to, or due to magic.
11. producing the effects of magic; magical: a magic touch.

verb (used with object), magicked, magicking.

I am not interested in how the world uses the term, The basic hermeneutical principle is > The Bible defines the Bible.
12. to create, transform, move, etc., by or as if by magic: "I magicked him into a medieval knight."
By this set of definitions alone these are the things we are guilty of EVERY DAY:
Use of a vehicle like a car. (Where's the horse? Must be magic!)
Having a special evening with someone special without letting them know how special it was. (So much for a magical evening.)
Most doctors would be suspect. (When they 'work their magic' to heal us.)
We would have to rid ourselves of matches, lighters and maybe even flint/steel. (It looks like magic to some.)
Microwaves would be taboo. (It also looks like magic.)
So much for TV shows, movies and cartoons. (My grandpa always talked about the 'magic picture box'.)

I could go on a little, but I think this is enough to get my point across. Yep, you guessed it: Our own understanding of the word 'magic' and how it gets in the way.
With that I'll be shutting down this (magic) box called a computer and heading out to catch a bus with my (magic) card that allows me to get on for free.
For the record, I am MAGIC:

Mostly
Against
Generously
Instigating
Comments

PEACE!
8)

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Re: Magic minecraft Christians post 2

Postby BlockHeadLewie » Mon Feb 15, 2016 2:08 am

a science theme is not "alchemy" . Alchemy was what started some peoples journy to science, but they are horses of a different color.
From a specific point of view, yes. Another takes it into fantasy, like thinking "You waste your time trying to land on the moon". It suddenly turned into "We actually did it!" thinking (as well as the "they faked it" thinking). Meanwhile show a tribal African village footage of us walking on the moon, what are their thoughts? "Magic" is my suggested answer to the question.
Imagination can and will get in all our ways if we let it. Asking, seeking and knocking brings true results!
Peace!
8)
If God is my Pilot and fully in control of the flight, I guess that makes me a Steward on the plane. How may I serve you?

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Re: Magic minecraft Christians post 2

Postby WisteriaWillows » Mon Mar 14, 2016 1:58 am

I feel a little anxious about adding to this, but ...

I view magic ... the magic that we are to avoid ... as being anything that depends upon or brings glory to satan or demons.

Minecraft could probably be purer, but I can play it in faith, and my behavior shines through as either godly or ungodly.


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