Star Wars 7. SPOILERS

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Star Wars 7. SPOILERS

Postby ArcticFox » Mon Dec 21, 2015 10:16 am

In case you didn't read the title of this thread, there are SPOILERS. So if you haven't seen the movie, hit the 'back' button. Now.

Saw it last night.

I liked it a lot. I'm still digesting it, but it was a successful movie and it has lifted the prequels curse from the franchise.

It had a couple of problems, but nothing that ruins the experience or the movie. I can tell you that George Lucas is going to HATE this movie, which is an endorsement in my book.

There are some things that I think will be controversial.
  • The death of Han Solo
    Kylo Ren's anger management issues
    Another Death Star like weapon
I kinda want to write more, but I'm still digesting.
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Re: Star Wars 7. SPOILERS

Postby Superstars111 » Tue Dec 22, 2015 12:56 am

My issue with the movie has less to do with the content itself and more to do with the annihilation of the EU. I think that what they should have done was split the movie off from the EU but kept the EU going. But as for the movie itself...

It was a bit heavy on the references, including the Death Star weapon, but I think the idea was to capture the excitement from the previous movies. I'm not sure if they went too far with their references or not, though.
As for the death of Solo, I don't think they really had a choice there. I've heard that Harrison Ford only agreed to be in the movie on the condition that he died. (I'm not certain how accurate that is, but it's what I've heard, and it wouldn't really surprise me.)
My issue with Kylo Ren wasn't his temper so much as his mask, which was shown to be unneeded. As it is, I guess I'm leaning more towards the idea that it was part of a uniform, rather than something necessary. His temper was a bit over the top, I suppose, but considering that he went to the dark side in the first place, and is now being fed by it, I think it's understandable. (And that scene where the stormtroopers decided to take another route got a fair number of laughs in the theater, some of them mine. XD)

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Re: Star Wars 7. SPOILERS

Postby Chozon1 » Tue Dec 22, 2015 5:58 am

I loved the movie...but I didn't like the movie, either. And I'm not sure which part of me will win out in the end. Probably the love part. It's Star Wars, afterall. :P

I liked how close it felt to the originals, even though I heard people commenting as I left the theater that the stories were almost too similar. Which I can see...I'm not sure I agree. The death star planet was...kinda funny. It seemed like something the Empire would do...It tickled the back of my mind in the theater, but I'm not sure if I have a problem with it, or if I knew internet whining about it was inevitable (not in this thread, mind. Just...you know it's coming. :P). At least the explosion wasn't on an axis. Thank heavens for that. It was cool, though. Not sure I like that the First Order blew up a good portion of the Republic, since that thing was just re-opened...But then, I hate sequels which undo all the work the first story did. So that's just me, and I can admit that.

Kylo Ren...again, I'm uncertain. I'm glad they didn't try to make another Darth Vader. That can't be done. Instead, they've got a stupid kid that's desperately trying to be Darth Vader. Which makes sense in a way. I liked the mask aspect, actually, since it showed he wasn't some horribly scarred, mistreated Anakin type...but just a stupid kid, who'd done stupid things, and had no way to back out of it; he hated the mask, but had to wear it because otherwise, he wouldn't be able to do the evil things he did (plus, he look's like a five year old...no one would take him seriously). Even his temper tantrums seem to indicate that he's still a kid, and wishes he could undo the past. He knows what he's doing is horribly wrong, but he feels like he can't go back (Especially now that he freaking killed Han Solo. @_@).

Which at first shot, I'm OK with. I'm not sure where they're going to end it though, because if they go for redemption it would almost feel...hollow? With Darth Vader, it was unexpected and awesome. It meant something. I'm not sure I'd be OK with Kylo going lightside...perhaps in the second movie, their will be more information indicating he had a reason to go darkside. But I don't know. I'm totally expecting him to need the mask in the next episode, and hate that he can no longer remove it.

I'm certain I didn't like Solo's death, though. :P There was a small part of me that was like "no mak it didn't happen. MAKE IT DIDN'T HAPPEN". There was a large part of me that cried. I'm not ashamed to admit it. And yeah, another part of me is hoping he's still alive in somehow. It's happened before, and the Clone Wars cartoons brought back Darth Maul, so...

But even if he is dead...I'll be OK with it, I guess. It hurts...but I'll be OK eventually. Probably. -_- If someone had to pull an Obi-Wan...well, no. I think I'd rather it have been Leia. >_> But if a character I liked had to pull an Obi-Wan, better Solo than Luke. For me, and perhaps it's just the emotional investment in the characters, that sealed the fate of Kyle Ren. I want him deads. :evil:

All that said, I have no complaints. I really like Ray, and Finn, and even BB-8, whom with all the merchandising and clear "Look at the cute new toy design" connotations, I thought I would hate. I like him. And they did a fantastic job with Luke in the end. He looked awesome. XD Even Poe was cool.

So, through all my complaints, I loved the movie and plan to see it six times when it hits the $2 theater, and purchase it at the midnight release. >_>
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Re: Star Wars 7. SPOILERS

Postby ArcticFox » Tue Dec 22, 2015 9:01 am

Dude I feel the Kylo Ren hate. I hate him too. Han was my favorite character from the original trilogy.

That said, Han Solo needed to die.

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Han Solo was always the action man character. When someone needed to chase a squad of Stormtroopers down a corridor, Han's your man. When someone needed to swoop in and help Luke kill the Death Star, Han's your man. When someone needed to go out and grab Luke before he froze to death... Han Solo, baby. The one. The only. The man who shot first. Han Solo, action man.

As a result, he really didn't get a ton of character development in the originals. He was basically the same guy in the first movie as the last. Oh, he changed a little... he had committed himself to the Rebel cause, he'd learned to be a leader... but he was still basically the same guy with the same basic job.

But now... now he's old. Sorry, but he is. He just can't BE that action man anymore. A character like him should have been more of a wise mentor, or leader, or something more suited to his age and experience... but the character just didn't have enough of those traits to be believable in that role. Sure, by episode 7 he's a man with a burden of sadness, regret... but still the same guy and he seemed almost silly... and not in an endearing way.

So we have Kylo Ren, his son, who is looking to stabilize his inner struggle. How does he do that? Well... What did Luke to to calm his demons? He spared his father. He refused to strike him down and in so doing cemented himself to the light side of the Force. Kylo Ren did the opposite. By killing his father he purged his last doubts and fully gave himself over. Han Solo became a sort of sacrificial lamb on the altar of the Dark Side. Luke's relationship with his father helped him center himself in the light, Kylo's propelled him fully into the dark.

And yes, we have a new generation of characters and the old generation needed to pass the torch. I think this has been accomplished.
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Re: Star Wars 7. SPOILERS

Postby JOJ650s » Tue Dec 22, 2015 5:35 pm

It is kinda funny, I don't know if I love the movie or just like it. XD
It was probably the violence. (I don't quite want to see people eaten alive, or hear people freak out before their planet explodes, etc; every time I watch the movie for...enjoyment? Getting shot by a gun is oddly okay though. >_>)

Other than that I recall really liking everything else. XD

I personally don't see a problem with Kylo Ren's temper tantrums, as it seems to really fit him. XD (and it hasn't really gotten in the way.)
It not like he is suppose to be the powerful-cool-enigma character like Vader was. (Even though he is trying to be like him. :P )
Though one thing that I don't quite get is... if he looks up to Vader so much, why is he going after the darkside?
I mean, he should know that Vader returned to the lightside before dieing...
(I could almost see Anakin force-ghost facepalming when Kylo Ren was talking to Vader's helmet. :P )
Though it is pretty interesting how he is following in Vader's footsteps. (killing all the jedi students.)

Also yes, I am really liking the main characters.
(On a side note, it's really weird to see Chewbacca without Solo. :wtc: )
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Re: Star Wars 7. SPOILERS

Postby ccgr » Tue Dec 22, 2015 8:23 pm

I enjoyed the movie. Can't say I love it though.

A few things I wonder though.

How old is Kylo? He looks to be in his twenties. How OLD were Liah and Han when they had him?

Although I have seen BB-8 go down stairs, HOW did he go back up them??

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Re: Star Wars 7. SPOILERS

Postby Deepfreeze32 » Thu Dec 24, 2015 12:24 am

I apologize in advance for rambling, I drove from San Antonio to Dallas today, and then saw the Star Wars movie, and I'm super tired right now. @_@
I can tell you that George Lucas is going to HATE this movie, which is an endorsement in my book.
I actually think that may be part of the reason I disliked the movie.

Yep. I guess I'm the first one here to say I didn't like it. I don't hate it (I enjoyed parts of it), but I didn't love it, and wouldn't rank it above Return of the Jedi.

So let's start with the good. Rey is far and away my favorite character. She's incredible. Finn is also really awesome. Poe is under-used, but great. BB-8's no R2 in my book, but...not bad. Harrison Ford and Carrie Fisher deliver compelling performances as Han and Leia. It was also nice to see C-3PO being his usual self.

But some characters I didn't really like. General Hux is underwhelming. He lacks the wizened look or commanding presence that other commanders did. Domnhall Gleeson is not a bad actor, but he's no Peter Cushing in this movie. Although an argument could be made that he's intentionally this way, that means Snoke is a stupid puppeteer, not near as smart as Palpatine. And speaking of that, what the crap kind of name is Snoke? "Supreme leader Snoke says..." commands about as much fear as "Supreme leader Lollipop says...". Which is none. It conveys laughter. And let's talk about the elephant in the room, Kylo Ren. I don't like this guy at all. Not because of his actions...but because he seems like whiny brat Anakin. His temper tantrums are believable...but we really didn't need to see that. I don't have much else to say about him because there's really not that much more to his character at this point.

Now let's discuss the other elephant in the room: The beats of A New Hope. Well, I can say that I disagree with those who claim this is a beat-for-beat reboot of A New Hope. Because this movie lacks the things that made A New Hope stand out as good. I'll cover these more later, but let's address the superweapon. You upgraded from moon-sized...to actual planet? I'm sorry, I thought we did away with the "Silly" EU stories like the Sun Crusher (Which can destroy stars). I guess the door is back open for stupid superweapons, because this movie sure didn't bother to close it. Additionally, the story doesn't really match A New Hope's beats because the "Interior Death Star" and "Attack on the Death Star" portions happen simultaneously in this. A New Hope wisely spread them out so you weren't rapidly focusing your attention back and forth. Also, A New Hope actually ends. This movie is a blatant cliffhanger. I don't fault the movie for this, but it's disingenuous to say this is a reboot of A New Hope when it gets the ending wrong. :P

Next, pacing. Or "What even is a second act." The first part of this movie had a decent flow to it. Then the flow jumps out the window in favor of...what we got. What was the deal with the freighter? That didn't feel Star Wars at all. It felt more like Guardians of the Galaxy. And the portion with Maz Kanata just drags on, and on, and on. They spent so much time dill-dallying that the plot from act 2 bled into the final battle. Speaking of which, the worst offender, by far, is the end. The fighter sequences are boring. I found myself emptily shrugging as I struggled to relate to what was going on. That was the least interesting fighter battle in Star Wars history. Yes. The Prequels had better fighter sequences. The mix of interior adventure and space combat was confusing. It's almost like a movie made this mistake befor- WAIT A MINUTE. THEY DID. The finale to The Phantom Menace also suffered from action fatigue, as you followed a Gungan battle, a space battle, an palace fight to the Viceroy, and the battle with Darth Maul. The Phantom Menace failed by having too much at once. This movie failed by adding too much important stuff to both. It was like "Oh, we're still doing a space battle? I thought we were having drama on the totally-not-the-Death-Star?"

A minor thing to note here was the fan service. The callbacks were at best excessive, and at worst, distracting. We get it, J.J.. You like the original trilogy. You don't need to remind us that those movies existed at every turn. Let this movie be it's own thing! I felt that the callbacks were not needed, and bogged down the film. Some of the more plot-important ones I didn't mind for their callback, but because they aren't explained. Maz said how she got Luke's lightsaber is a "Story for another time." NO! The time for that story is NOW, dang it!

Of course, the other minor issues I had were more technical. The CGI stuck out like a sore thumb. It was painfully obvious. Practical effects were good, but the CGI they used was not. Also, hyperspace felt like it was literally copy/pasted from the Star Trek reboot. I get it, they're similar, but come on guys. I also found the overall "feel" of everything to be very un-Star Wars. In the original trilogy, the sets and models had a well-worn, matte feel to them. Like they could actually exist. This movie had shiny things everywhere. Even if they were dirty and used, they still had that glossy, Pacific Rim-style look. Nothing about this is timeless, this is very easily identifiable as a 2010's movie with it's shiny, Apple-esque "gritty" aesthetic. Rather than just copy the style used by the original trilogy, a Hollywood coat of paint was applied.

And perhaps that's the best way to summarize how I feel. The Force Awakens feels like someone took the look of the Original Trilogy, dumped a bucket of Hollywood 2010's paint on it, added some genuinely interesting characters, stole elements of the plot from the originals and stripped their pacing, and called it Star Wars. I don't agree with them. This movie didn't /feel/ like Star Wars. It felt like a Hollywood imitation. Maybe Lucas's independence from Hollywood helped the original trilogy. Maybe it hurt the prequels. But either way...this does not feel like what I wanted. And that makes me sad.

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Re: Star Wars 7. SPOILERS

Postby Bruce_Campbell » Sat Dec 26, 2015 9:58 pm

I have a few gripes, but overall I'd say I'm firmly in the "liked it" camp. I agree the pacing was messy in parts, and it might have been nice if the story wasn't a remake of A New Hope, but it worked as a "passing on the torch" movie. I feel like I can finally forgive the franchise for the prequels.

I'm going to stick up for Kylo Ren. I think he has a lot of potential as a villain. Arctic touched on this when he defended Han's death, but his journey seems to be mirroring Luke's in the OT, but he's journeying to the Dark Side instead of the Light Side. He's driven by anger and chaos, which is what the Dark Side is all about. But he's still in training, so he hasn't learned to control it yet. I'm interested to see how they develop his character; because let's face it: they really blew it with Anakin Skywalker's journey to the Dark Side in the prequels. Really, who wants a stoic villain every darn time? I think between Ren and the other characters they've laid a pretty solid foundation for a new set of movies.

Now, as for gripes... yeah, I think the planetary weapon was a bit underwhelming and silly, and it felt like they were saying "Hey moviegoers: You thought the Death Star was bad? Wait 'til you see this! Oh hey, we just destroyed lots of planets! Isn't that cool?" I didn't care much for Act 3, except for the lightsaber battle between Kylo and Rey/Finn. The last five minutes felt like they were tacked on so they could show Luke Skywalker once before the movie ended. There were a few 2010-ish things I didn't care for as well, like when Poe says "So who talks first, me? You?" (although one could argue that it was perfectly in character for him).

Anyway, my thoughts.
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Re: Star Wars 7. SPOILERS

Postby babymcnerd » Sun Jan 03, 2016 11:41 am

loved the movie and the spoilers are so so true

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Re: Star Wars 7. SPOILERS

Postby ArcticFox » Mon Jan 04, 2016 10:36 am

It was also nice to see C-3PO being his usual self.
Yeah I was nervous about him because of the absolutely cringeworthy comoc relief role he'd been relegated to in the prequels.
what the crap kind of name is Snoke?
Hey man, after having to endure a name like Count Dooku, I think we got off easy on that one.
Also, A New Hope actually ends. This movie is a blatant cliffhanger. I don't fault the movie for this, but it's disingenuous to say this is a reboot of A New Hope when it gets the ending wrong. :P
I agree. They could have tweaked the ending to make it feel more like an actual ending that closes off the first part. Episode 4 and, much as I hate to admit it, Episode 1 got this right.
Maz said how she got Luke's lightsaber is a "Story for another time." NO! The time for that story is NOW, dang it!
Yeah it would have been better if they'd at least given a quick "Bespin cloudminers recovered it and passed it to the Rebellion where I was working as a clerk." Bam. Done. Can be expanded into a larger story later if they wanted to.
Of course, the other minor issues I had were more technical. The CGI stuck out like a sore thumb. It was painfully obvious. Practical effects were good, but the CGI they used was not. Also, hyperspace felt like it was literally copy/pasted from the Star Trek reboot. I get it, they're similar, but come on guys. I also found the overall "feel" of everything to be very un-Star Wars. In the original trilogy, the sets and models had a well-worn, matte feel to them. Like they could actually exist. This movie had shiny things everywhere. Even if they were dirty and used, they still had that glossy, Pacific Rim-style look. Nothing about this is timeless, this is very easily identifiable as a 2010's movie with it's shiny, Apple-esque "gritty" aesthetic. Rather than just copy the style used by the original trilogy, a Hollywood coat of paint was applied.
I dunno I felt the settings were pretty well lived in, except the First Order facilities which shouldn't feel that way anyhow.
Now, as for gripes... yeah, I think the planetary weapon was a bit underwhelming and silly, and it felt like they were saying "Hey moviegoers: You thought the Death Star was bad? Wait 'til you see this! Oh hey, we just destroyed lots of planets! Isn't that cool?"
Yeah I agreed. You know something's wrong when the star system killing planet-gun is a minor subplot.

So George Lucas must be more butthurt than we thought.
"It is important to make it clear that I am thrilled that Disney has the franchise and is moving it in such exciting directions in film,
television and the parks... Most of all I'm blown away with the record-breaking blockbuster success of the new movie and am very proud of JJ and Kathy."

I bet he's blown away.

"They wanted to do a retro movie. I don't like that, Every movie, I work very hard to make them completely different, with
different planets, with different spaceships, make it new."

I'm calling B.S. on that. Tatooine appears in every single one of the first 6 films except Empire Strikes Back. Coruscant is in all 3 prequels as is Naboo. Each film does introduce at least one new planet, but rarely does that even matter. The prequels were working toward starships and fighters that looked like the familiar ones from the orginals.

"They weren't that keen to have me involved anyway, but if I get in there, I'm just going to cause trouble, because they're not going to
do what I want them to do. And I don't have the control to do that any more."

That, George, is precisely why you got shut out of the process. You'd cause trouble when you didn't get your way. You can't seem to just offer suggestions and leave it at that.

"When you break up with somebody... You have to put it behind you and it's a very, very, very hard thing to do, These are my kids... All the Star Wars films. I loved them,
I created them, I'm very intimately involved in them. I sold them to the white slavers that take these things."

YOU created them? dude... you can reasonably make that comment about the prequels and even the very first Star Wars film (though that does implicitly ignore the cotributions of many of other talented people) but you did NOT create Episodes 5 and 6, which many fans regard as the best in the series.
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Re: Star Wars 7. SPOILERS

Postby JOJ650s » Mon Jan 04, 2016 12:27 pm

Eh, I think Lucas has been taking it fairly well.

I mean he acknowledges why he isn't involved in the film development, and that Starwars fans would/do love the new movie.
He could have reacted much worse... much worse, he might even feel better about things once the trilogy ends.

No telling what would happen if the prequels got a reboot though...
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Re: Star Wars 7. SPOILERS

Postby ChickenSoup » Thu Jan 07, 2016 12:12 pm

I sold them to the white slavers that take these things


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Re: Star Wars 7. SPOILERS

Postby Chozon1 » Tue Jan 12, 2016 4:20 am

Petition to get George Lucas back directing for episode IX

It won't happen, of course, but the big thing is...I'm genuinely shocked he's got almost 20K signees. Goes to show how a vocal minority can influence the internet, I guess.

Then again, if episode VIII is the same as episode VII, but with a true death Star (literally, one the size of a star) I really might not mind a replacement for J.J after all. :P
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Re: Star Wars 7. SPOILERS

Postby ArcticFox » Tue Jan 12, 2016 10:05 am

JJ wasn't coming back anyway.

Rian Johnson is directing Episode XIII and Colin Trevorrow is doing Episode IX.
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Re: Star Wars 7. SPOILERS

Postby Deepfreeze32 » Tue Jan 12, 2016 1:39 pm

So the more I think about it, the more ok I am with Kylo Ren as a villain. I don't hate his character from a writing perspective anymore. That said, I need to see the movie again, but was so underwhelmed I don't want to spend my own money to do so. XD

One gripe (And it's more of a nit than anything) was that some of the humor felt forced. Like Finn's little "outburst" at Phasma when they captured her. Just...no. That felt forced, sitcommy, not the kind of banter we would see in an actual conversation.

A slightly larger problem that bugs me more and more is how underused Phasma was. Seriously. She's carrying on the grand tradition of looking cool and doing absolutely jack. Wasted opportunity.

AND. I feel that Max Von Sydow was wasted as a cameo. Von Sydow is a fantastic actor, especially at complex characters, so reducing him to such a small role feels almost offensive.


I'm waiting for the DVD/Blu-Ray release, because I want to see what deleted scenes we didn't get.


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