Les Miserables

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Re: Les Miserables

Postby ArchAngel » Fri Jan 25, 2013 6:34 pm

Out of all the arts, I thought music was the one with the greatest raw emotional power.
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Re: Les Miserables

Postby ArcticFox » Fri Jan 25, 2013 8:22 pm

Out of all the arts, I thought music was the one with the greatest raw emotional power.
Agreed.

You know, I was thinking about this and I realized another piece of symbolism... When Javert is singing "Stars," He's walking back and forth on the ledge, and before him is the front facade of the Cathedral of Notre Dame. It's facing him, and the camera angles tend to be low so he looks tall and powerful up on the stone wall he's standing on.

Later, when he's singing just before his suicide, the Cathedral is again in the background. Javert feels like his beliefs and values have abandoned him, and it's symbolic that the Cathedral is facing away from him, he's actually behind the building... And the camera is at a higher angle as if to make him seem a bit smaller.
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Re: Les Miserables

Postby ArchAngel » Fri Jan 25, 2013 10:28 pm

Good call on the cathedral.

The whole set up for those shots are full of symbolism. His standing on the ledge, looking down and at any moment, able to fall.
His final death itself, falling into the river, itself is a reference to dying and resurrection(when the person comes back out). It's a frequent literary tool (like Mr. Darcy diving into the pool in the BBC Pride and Prejudice, symbolizing his baptism and return as a new individual). Here, Javert goes down and passes, and while he does himself emerge as a new person, the concept of justice does. Justice is no longer an eternally hounding punishment, but now mercy.
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Re: Les Miserables

Postby ArcticFox » Tue Jan 29, 2013 2:53 pm

During "Stars" there's definitely the tension of him being on a ledge, but at the same time he's "standing on a wall" like a defender. With the bridge... not so much... It's like he's crossing a bridge from the world of black and white, absolute justice, no compromise into a world with shades of gray, where men like Valjean can be good men despite their past, and he can't make it across. He makes it halfway, which matches up with his allowing Valjean to escape with the wounded Marius, but he can go no further. His faith is shaken so he can't return, so all that's left to him is...

"I'll escape now from that world
from the world of Jean Valjean
There is nowhere I can turn
There is no way to go on...."
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Re: Les Miserables

Postby ArchAngel » Tue Jan 29, 2013 7:05 pm

Good call. Totally.

Man, that movie is good.

How good?
This good.
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Re: Les Miserables

Postby ScotchRobbins » Tue Jan 29, 2013 10:29 pm

Out of all the arts, I thought music was the one with the greatest raw emotional power.
The sense of smell is actually the most emotionally powerful sense, being tied directly to your memory...

But music is also very influential, and I can change my mood with my music (nostalgia is a powerful beast, ladies and gents).
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Re: Les Miserables

Postby ArchAngel » Tue Jan 29, 2013 10:36 pm

Are you advocating a new art medium? A smell art?

"Ahh, yes, now, do take note of the rise in apple pie followed shortly by old motor oil with a whiff of flatulence, signifying the decline in American idealism."
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Re: Les Miserables

Postby ScotchRobbins » Tue Jan 29, 2013 11:53 pm

Are you advocating a new art medium? A smell art?

"Ahh, yes, now, do take note of the rise in apple pie followed shortly by old motor oil with a whiff of flatulence, signifying the decline in American idealism."
Perhaps I am, but it should seem that you have done a far better job advocating it than I have.
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Re: Les Miserables

Postby Orodrist » Wed Jan 30, 2013 12:40 am

It's true though. When I smell a certain variety of air freshener I immediately flash back to playing SW: Bounty Hunter
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Re: Les Miserables

Postby ScotchRobbins » Wed Jan 30, 2013 12:51 am

Post-rain warm spring air smells a bit like cheap maple syrup to me. I am whipped back to my childhood years, climbing a jungle gym and just busking in general.

I love me childhood.
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Re: Les Miserables

Postby ArcticFox » Wed Jan 30, 2013 1:50 pm

Are you advocating a new art medium? A smell art?

"Ahh, yes, now, do take note of the rise in apple pie followed shortly by old motor oil with a whiff of flatulence, signifying the decline in American idealism."
Brings me back to my days as a mechanic...
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Re: Les Miserables

Postby ArchAngel » Wed Jan 30, 2013 9:52 pm

You worked as a mechanic? I might have to come to you for advice! I need a friend with mechanic experience. :P
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Re: Les Miserables

Postby ArcticFox » Wed Jan 30, 2013 10:31 pm

Heh yeah before I became a computer geek I was an ASE Certified Master Auto Technician. My last mechanic job was at a Nissan dealership.
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Re: Les Miserables

Postby ArchAngel » Wed Jan 30, 2013 11:22 pm

Nice! Any recommendations on replacing a worn outer tie rod?
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Re: Les Miserables

Postby Supern0va » Thu Jan 31, 2013 4:41 am

Spoiler:
I think I understand what you're saying, but I feel like you still have this misconception that musicals take away the power and tragedy of heartbreaking stories by setting them to song, which is simply not true. You can't compare Les Miserables to the Sound of Music because while there are moments of tragedy in the story, ultimately the movie is about their escape from the Nazi regime. It was "delightful," as you say, because the tone wasn't meant to be a darker version of the tale. They're not trying to sanitize Les Mis, or make it into something 'catchy' that you're meant to sing along to. Rather, the music is meant as a bolstering of the redemptive power of the story, having the effect of enhancing its tragic tone.

I know about the poverty in Asia. I know about the oppression of the Burmese people by their government. I've spent more than half of my life living in Asia and my dad does missions work among the Karen. I would honestly not object if they tried to make a musical out of Karen oppression, but only if there was the mindset that it would be meant to highlight the sufferings of a people rather than contort it into a farce of song and dance. It could truly be powerful.

It might be important to note that there isn't really much choreography in Les Mis (at least, not that I can remember outside of the Thenardiers); it's not like every time there's a song the action stops for an elaborate routine. 98% of the movie is entirely singing. It's not for everyone but I wouldn't dismiss it, it's certainly a potent experience.
Huh ?? Most of what I was saying earlier is praising the earlier movie for producing valuable themes and roles played by a protagonist that most "heroic" movies today don't come close to it. that's all.

i said I enjoy broadway musicals -phantom of the opera, etc. I'm a person who enjoys ballet, opera and at the same time, i can say I've watched Rambo IV and I enjoyed it.
And you think I have this misconception that music is lame ???? lol.

No, I understand the power of music and appreciate it. What I don't appreciate is, you're the one who jumped on me saying "Just because it's a musical doesn't mean that it can't be dramatic and emotionally powerful. and have i heard of sweeny todd ?" lol, very nice.

Sweeney Todd is not a horror movie, it is a "Dark" themed musical and its violence is meant to portray some drama, tragedy and serial mind of his. Watching real neck cutting is the terrorist sawing off the soldier's head in real life with a blunt instrument.

Well, let me ask you this question. What if Every, and I mean Every movie in the world becomes a Musical ? Didn't you said music does not take away its tragedy and emotional trial ? Should James Bond be a musical ?

Whatever your answer is. LikeWise, I was expecting this movie to Not to be one.
Hence the reason I wasn't so keen on watching it but even though it is, I'm not saying, "it sucks", I would enjoy it. Never in all my post have I said, oh music, singing, dancing, is terrible ..... I love musicals myself. So, I don't think you have problem with that, do you ?

Even Lord of the Rings / The Hobbit had singing in there, but it's not claimed a musical. A Musical, IS a musical. The difference is just how much tragedy, the themes and kind of audience its attracting and their kind of music. Sound of music, Sweeney todd, Moulin Rouge are all musicals, they're just a different style.

Chozon1 mentioned reality different and I agree,
Spoiler:
Well, truthfully, reality holds far more pain than fiction. But it's not fair to apply that in a discussion on movies, since it is entertainment and fantasy being discussed here.
There is a point of entertainment, fantasy but not just only that but Inspiration, some hope, the beauty of music which can make a big difference.

So you understand the poverty in 3rd world countries. You understand, women are treated like crap, raped - a lot of prostitution business. Children sold off, I don't know about the value of humanity. There are violent gangs, drugs. If you want to make a musical out of it , be my guest.

Les Miserables is actually a good example of a musical, why ?
Because it holds all the necessary ingredients.
Tragedy - there's civil war, revolution and oppression from the government. There is love, family love, the uphold and struggle of a man, albeit a good man but the Downside is, they didn't wrote it, Hugo did.
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