Page 3 of 6

Re: Les Miserables

Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2013 12:03 am
by ScotchRobbins
ArchAngel wrote:FOR SCIENCE!

But, seriously, don't try turning off the feels. Let dem rivers flow.
But, but... science!

Okay. I'll try it. If I can get slightly invested in as shallow-developed a character as Cole MacGrath, I could try to dig Les Mis.

Re: Les Miserables

Posted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 4:33 pm
by ohnolookout

I wish this was all one picture...

...but I loved it too much not to share it. :lol:

Re: Les Miserables

Posted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 6:58 pm
by ArchAngel
Haha, that's great!

Re: Les Miserables

Posted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 7:03 pm
by ScotchRobbins
Perhaps you couldn't tell from where you're sitting...

But I'm secretly exploding with laughter.

Re: Les Miserables

Posted: Wed Jan 23, 2013 1:51 am
by Supern0va
this a musical.. ugh

isn't it a tragic story ? and they make a musical out of it(well has been some time), i dont know, now that its a musical im not so keen on watching it.

there were many notable and heroic themes in the earlier movie, played by liam neeson, want to name them ? ... transition from bad to good, showing mercy, sparing the villain's life, suffering as a just man, fighting for the weak, standing up/appealing for the dumb, keeping his promise...(i did not read the book, so i assume theyre similar- even if not) there were so many heroic and honourable acts that The Avengers dont even come a fingernail close...

theres nothing in avengers i find being honourable considering theyre the "world savers, from doom". russell crowe is a good actor, which might be the only reason I 'might' watch it

Re: Les Miserables

Posted: Wed Jan 23, 2013 4:35 am
by TripExistence
Just because it's a musical doesn't mean that it can't be dramatic and emotionally powerful rather than saccharine and empty. Arguably the presence of the music makes it more so. Haven't you ever heard of a little musical called Sweeney Todd?

Also, the previous Liam Neeson movie has already been discussed in this thread. :P And if I understood you correctly, they didn't "make" it into a musical, the stage musical adaptation of the original novel predates that particular film by almost twenty years.

Re: Les Miserables

Posted: Wed Jan 23, 2013 5:33 am
by Supern0va
lol, i live in asia. you want something dramatic and emotionally powerful ? come and see the poverty in asia, and then you may make a musical of poverty and dying people out of it :P . if i want to watch a musical, i'll go broadway. and yes, i only watch sweety nodd for minutes

Re: Les Miserables

Posted: Wed Jan 23, 2013 9:19 am
by Chozon1
Well, truthfully, reality holds far more pain than fiction. But it's not fair to apply that in a discussion on movies, since it is entertainment and fantasy being discussed here. It's...unkind. There's a valid argument in there, but not a logically correct one.

Also, Trip is probably the one man on the boards who you do not need to jump on for experiencing the poverty in Asia.

Also, I've never considered Les Miserables a tragedy.

Re: Les Miserables

Posted: Wed Jan 23, 2013 3:22 pm
by ohnolookout
Supern0va wrote:lol, i live in asia. you want something dramatic and emotionally powerful ? come and see the poverty in asia, and then you may make a musical of poverty and dying people out of it :P . if i want to watch a musical, i'll go broadway. and yes, i only watch sweety nodd for minutes
May I ask where you're from?

I'm also not sure why you're comparing The Avengers to Les Miserables. :?

Re: Les Miserables

Posted: Wed Jan 23, 2013 3:37 pm
by ArcticFox
ohnolookout wrote: I'm also not sure why you're comparing The Avengers to Les Miserables. :?
This. It's like comparing a stick of bubblegum to a steak dinner. Both enjoyable, but one far more satisfying.

Re: Les Miserables

Posted: Wed Jan 23, 2013 4:12 pm
by ScotchRobbins
I know man... that bubblegum... MMM!

Re: Les Miserables

Posted: Wed Jan 23, 2013 6:43 pm
by Supern0va
Oh very simple.

I'm sure you've heard of the term hiperbole and metaphor's. some exaggeration to assert a point/figure of speech to compare. i'm also sure you do not take sarcasms literally.

i dont know if you've seen the older one, or even if you liked it. i haven't seen this new one, so i can't say much.. but i can say 1998 version has done well considering its decade(tech), with numerous honourable roles and themes very well exemplified in a movie, wherein you know, comparing to these days, a lot of trash in cinemas.

the simple act of sacrificing his status, wealth, to save a dumb innocent fellow that is about to be punished wrongfully with nothing to loose, is just simply astounding..

and then giving mercy and not killing javert who is the prime spectacle of his life being ruined.. (i assume its similar to the book) even Optimus Prime did not spare Sentinel's life in the end of Dark of the moon - why i bring in transformers ? cuz Optimus is a figure of a leader most of us look up to. and to justify that, I'm sure you agree our God is mooore merciful than we can ever imagine. God is merciful even to the wicked and murderers, Cain e.g.

Oskar Schindler's ,List movie quote "Power is when we have every justification to kill .... and we don't."
most valuable quote in the movie :P - surprising its also by Liam Neeson and my last movie i watched was taken 2, .. but well, neither battleship nor wrath of titans compelled me, so i didn't watch those - as i've said, russell crowe may be the only reason im watching les miserables

why did i bring in Avengers ? well, it was pretty hyped yeh. the finest team, heroes, created for world domination emergency.. epic movie. but the grand heroes whom so many kids looked up to, how cool they are, did not have the closest honourable and heroic acts Jean Valjean managed to do in 1998 movie. real power and real heroism, is not easy.

and i just googled, les miserables themes, too much to write about, but even the point form weren't enough. ((copypaste)
The homeless and the poor
Personal and social responsibility
Crime and punishment/rehabilitation - social injustice
The fight for freedom

in my point of view, the themes seem pretty tragic. true, that reality is far from fiction. however, i'd like to point out from Rambo IV - now thats... one violent and tragic movie.
According to Karen Freedom Fighters, the movie gave them a great boost of morale. Burmese freedom fighters have even adopted dialogue from the movie (most notably "Live for nothing, or die for something") as rallying points and battle cries. "That, to me," said Sylvester Stallone, "is one of the proudest moments I've ever had in film."[20] Also, overseas Burmese have praised the movie for its vivid portrayal of the military's oppression of the Karen people. wikipedia
entertainment and fantasy have its place, but sometimes, also to understand and mimic the cries of the people which at times, will bring tears of memory or despair.

its like making a musical out of the oppression in burma , which is why i was like "ugh, a musical ?" but now i understand, the movie is intended on being entertaining and strong, cuz even sound of music, the real von trapp story is more of a tragic one, but movie made it delightful and yes we like it that way

Re: Les Miserables

Posted: Wed Jan 23, 2013 9:54 pm
by TripExistence
I think I understand what you're saying, but I feel like you still have this misconception that musicals take away the power and tragedy of heartbreaking stories by setting them to song, which is simply not true. You can't compare Les Miserables to the Sound of Music because while there are moments of tragedy in the story, ultimately the movie is about their escape from the Nazi regime. It was "delightful," as you say, because the tone wasn't meant to be a darker version of the tale. They're not trying to sanitize Les Mis, or make it into something 'catchy' that you're meant to sing along to. Rather, the music is meant as a bolstering of the redemptive power of the story, having the effect of enhancing its tragic tone.

I know about the poverty in Asia. I know about the oppression of the Burmese people by their government. I've spent more than half of my life living in Asia and my dad does missions work among the Karen. I would honestly not object if they tried to make a musical out of Karen oppression, but only if there was the mindset that it would be meant to highlight the sufferings of a people rather than contort it into a farce of song and dance. It could truly be powerful.

It might be important to note that there isn't really much choreography in Les Mis (at least, not that I can remember outside of the Thenardiers); it's not like every time there's a song the action stops for an elaborate routine. 98% of the movie is entirely singing. It's not for everyone but I wouldn't dismiss it, it's certainly a potent experience.

Re: Les Miserables

Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2013 12:57 am
by CountKrazy
This feels like an argument that I might have heard in the cinematography class that I recently dropped out of

My reason for dropping out of it was because it consisted solely of these kinds of arguments

Everyone here has good points, I think, even supern0va... in some ways. But if there's anything that gets on my nerves, it's the mentality that all modern day movie making is "trash" compared to a decade or two decades ago. It feels like an old man sitting on his rocking chair going "in my day we did THESE things better." Sure, there are eras of films that depict certain traits and certain themes, and yeah, technology has allowed for some pretty insubstantial eye candy to be released every year. Honestly, though, if you feel that that's the circumference of filmmaking these days, you're painfully limited in the amount of movies you've seen. I'm not even talking art house movies; I don't like to hedge in movies with terms like "art house" or "main stream," anyway. They're everywhere. My point is, if you're so negative towards modern filmmaking, you'll almost never be able to see the incredible amount of good to be found in many of today's movies, both stylistically and thematically.

My other issue is with isolating certain styles of filmmaking as "inconsiderate" to human issues. I haven't seen much of Life is Beautiful, but from all that I know of it, it shattered everyone's notion that the Holocaust could never be portrayed in a whimsical way. Of course, it remains a balance of tragedy and comedy, but it aimed to find lightness in the darkest of places. Musicals aren't inherently weightless, nor are comedies, nor are any other genre or style. The responsibility to do an issue justice is on the creators. I would just encourage people to be far more open-minded about this kind of thing, because there are so many ways people live and view life, and movies should reflect that. Assuming that Les Miserables is offensive just because it's a musical is woefully reactionary in nature.

Re: Les Miserables

Posted: Fri Jan 25, 2013 1:56 am
by ChickenSoup
also as a lover of music I just can't fathom how anyone would think that music can't express something powerfully