Batman Reboot - how would YOU do it?

[ArchAngel]

That's pretty insightful. And I completely agree.

[ArcticFox]

Maybe you could continue the story in the same universe with a different style, but that would turn fragmented and muddy before you know it. It would be a mess. There's no way to make it work. This is what makes me wonder if people truly understand directing and the sheer impossibility of deviating from what you as the filmmaker bring to any given story. Picture James Cameron trying to do Lord of the Rings in Peter Jackson's language. No. Dear God no. If Lord of the Rings goes on, it will be remade in a different style and in a different way, though that is one series that I think has been put down for good. Nobody can touch that with any hope of success. In much the same way, The Godfather is The Godfather. Sometimes a story just has to be put to bed. But hey, we've still got The Silmarillion, but that's on par with attempting to adapt the entire Bible into a series. A mammoth of narrative, to put it lightly.

I agree with this part especially, and ironically it was Batman that comes to my m ind as the best example. Tim Burton directed two Batman films, Batman (1989) and Batman Returns. For movies 3 and 4 in the set, Joel Schumacher took over and tried to do it in the same style. I've already said plenty about what I think of that, but the addendum is that Joel Schumacher isn't a bad director, and has made some pretty good movies... when he wasn't emulating someone else.

[LAVA89]

Actually, I would argue that Schumacher really was the first one to reboot Batman. Batman Forever is not a reboot on paper, but in terms of style, its different from Tim Burton's take. And that is what Warner Bros wanted, after the backlash of Return's darker take (or so I heard). Ten years later, WB wanted to distance Batman from the campier take of Forever and Batman & Robin (ironically enough) and got Nolan.

In response to your post, CountKrazy....I actually hope Batman gets rebooted, because there's alot of creative decisions that I didn't agree with in The Dark Knight and Rises.

[ArcticFox]

Actually, I would argue that Schumacher really was the first one to reboot Batman. Batman Forever is not a reboot on paper, but in terms of style, its different from Tim Burton's take. And that is what Warner Bros wanted, after the backlash of Return's darker take (or so I heard). Ten years later, WB wanted to distance Batman from the campier take of Forever and Batman & Robin (ironically enough) and got Nolan.

I agree it's a different style in the sense that it's inevitable when switching directors with a strong sense of their own style. On the other hand, I just can't see it as a reboot on any level. The style may have shifted somewhat, but thematically it was still the same as the Burton movies. It had the darker tone (in a failed attempt to stir in a cup of 60s Adam West Batman), the same actor for Alfred, and followed the same continuity as the Burton films. That's the critical element of a reboot: creating a new continuity.

[ChickenSoup]

Well, it looks like we'll have an indirect batman reboot via the Justice League movie?

[selderane]

I don't think they should reboot, and they don't have to. I think it would be ballsy as hell, and plain awesome, to continue with Joseph Gordon-Levitt as the new Batman. Hopefully, he'll be open to a Justice League crossover (something Christian Bale was never interested in) and you can keep everything that has been established for that slice of the film DCU.

I would be seriously surprised if Nolan didn't at least co-write or serve as executive producer of the next Batman film. He's already produced and worked on the story for Man of Steel with David Goyer. It's clear Warner wants to keep Nolan's touch on DC properties.

[CountKrazy]

I don't think they should reboot, and they don't have to. I think it would be ballsy as hell, and plain awesome, to continue with Joseph Gordon-Levitt as the new Batman. Hopefully, he'll be open to a Justice League crossover (something Christian Bale was never interested in) and you can keep everything that has been established for that slice of the film DCU.

I would be seriously surprised if Nolan didn't at least co-write or serve as executive producer of the next Batman film. He's already produced and worked on the story for Man of Steel with David Goyer. It's clear Warner wants to keep Nolan's touch on DC properties.

Really though, I understand where you're coming from, but I just couldn't disagree more AND THAT'S OKAY WE CAN STILL GO TO CHUCK E. CHEESE'S AND HAVE FUN

[LAVA89]

I don't think they should reboot

That's fine by me, but the topic of the thread really isn't about whether it should or shouldn't happen, or even if its going to happen. Its more along the lines of "how would you do an ideal Batman movie"? Without the answer being "what the other guys did".

I put the reboot aspect in this thread to separate this topic from being just talk about making a sequel to the Burton or Nolan line of films. In other words, if you could start a Batman from scratch-- without a preconceived continuity, how would you do it?

So if you could throw out any ideas of what you'd like to see, that would be great.

[ChickenSoup]

I don't think they should reboot, and they don't have to. I think it would be ballsy as hell, and plain awesome, to continue with Joseph Gordon-Levitt as the new Batman. Hopefully, he'll be open to a Justice League crossover (something Christian Bale was never interested in) and you can keep everything that has been established for that slice of the film DCU.

I would be seriously surprised if Nolan didn't at least co-write or serve as executive producer of the next Batman film. He's already produced and worked on the story for Man of Steel with David Goyer. It's clear Warner wants to keep Nolan's touch on DC properties.

[Drewsov]

I actually get what he's saying.

A reboot for the established franchise is ridiculous.

Let's look at it this way.

The comics have different plots. There are different narrative arcs, and different interpretations of the character. This has been established (and CK, no matter what you say, YOU STILL HAVE LESS FAMILIARITY WITH BATS THAN I DO) and it should be celebrated. Some of my favorite Batman stories are tales that take place near the beginning of his career: Frank Miller's Year One, Jeph Loeb and Tim Sale's one-two punch of The Long Halloween and Dark Victory. But those aren't origin stories (except for Year One), and The Long Halloween in particular details Batman's detective skills. It's a brilliant piece, and it closes ambiguously, which is awesome.

The thing is, there are also stories that can and should stand alone. Batman: Hush (Jeph Loeb and Jim Lee) and Arkham Asylum: A Serious House on Serious Earth (Grant Morrison and Dave McKean) are both exercises in pacing and exposition that, no matter what anyone says, can and should only be done by the graphic medium. The references to both that the Arkham games have dropped were wanting (particularly in Arkham Asylum), even if the barely concealed fanboy in me was squealing that someone had dropped a reference to one of my favorite books of all time.

(Importantly, the above mentioned books are actually more vital because of the visuals. I can't imagine Arkham Asylum without Dave McKean's schizophrenic imagery. ...Actually, I can, and it's in video game form. I vastly prefer the tortured, blood-spattered imagery of the book to the Gothic towers of the game. It was like someone took Morrison's haunting writing and McKean's demonic watercolors, removed McKean and kept the bare minimum of Morrison. Not cool, even if the game was crazy fun to play.)

These are in stark contrast to some of the more epic, gripping tales that Nolan drew from in his Dark Knight films. Batman: No Man's Land and Knightfall were both perfectly captured. I remember reading those when I was pretty young, and they've stuck with me since. And that's important, because they made more of an impact than Frank Miller's nasty, aged representation of Batman/Wayne in The Dark Knight Returns, which was diluted and extended by lengthy segments that showed news around the city. This was the stuff that bored me in Watchmen, and it was worse in Miller's book, because of the care I have for the universe.

But, really, if these different books can exist and show Batman - detective, savior, demon, all indicative of the character - then why does there need to be a reboot? Why can't there be a one-off tale set in the Batman universe? Or a series of films tracing a larger arc that ignores Nolan's Batman and creates something different? That different world can be something represented in the visual language of the film, in the writing, in the characterization. No one would confuse Nolan's Batman with someone else's.

All of that said, I really do believe that Nolan's Batman was the best that I've seen on film. There was stuff that I would have done differently. And I wish he would have had the guts to actually kill the character, but... that's for someone else (and no one say that it happened in Batman R.I.P., because it didn't and Bruce Wayne traveled through time, and it was stupid except for the two part comic that Neil Gaiman did which was amazing).

[selderane]

I don't think they should reboot

That's fine by me, but the topic of the thread really isn't about whether it should or shouldn't happen, or even if its going to happen. Its more along the lines of "how would you do an ideal Batman movie"? Without the answer being "what the other guys did".

I put the reboot aspect in this thread to separate this topic from being just talk about making a sequel to the Burton or Nolan line of films. In other words, if you could start a Batman from scratch-- without a preconceived continuity, how would you do it?

So if you could throw out any ideas of what you'd like to see, that would be great.

I tend to keep the business of movie making at the forefront of my mind, so that's where it tends to gravitate first.

I would argue, however, that a continuation of the current trajectory of the franchise would have a net effect of a reboot. Batman isn't Bruce Wayne any longer. Not sure how we can get more away from the Nolan films, or 99.99% of the Batman mythos, than that; it just happens to be the case Nolan laid the groundwork for it.

I would say it's as much as a reboot as making Damian Wayne or Dick Grayson Batman in a new set of films. I like the modern take, I want to see more of it, and putting the cowl on someone else gives us the net effect you're asking about.

It would seem to me, "What the other guy did," is a perfectly appropriate answer when the other guy pretty much hands you the reboot you're asking for.

[CountKrazy]

I still see where you guys are coming from, but I honestly do believe I share the sentiments of the general public on this one. I think most people would just lose interest in a continuation of Batman without Bruce Wayne, a continuation in Nolan's world without Noaln. There's a reason why every single superhero incarnation has stayed the same. As I said before, we don't replace mythological characters with new ones. It just doesn't work that way (in superhero films, anyway). I believe the same rule applies to Batman.

But, really, if these different books can exist and show Batman - detective, savior, demon, all indicative of the character - then why does there need to be a reboot? Why can't there be a one-off tale set in the Batman universe? Or a series of films tracing a larger arc that ignores Nolan's Batman and creates something different? That different world can be something represented in the visual language of the film, in the writing, in the characterization. No one would confuse Nolan's Batman with someone else's.

I don't know that a reboot is entirely exclusive of this. My original point is that Nolan created a pretty well-packaged, well-defined trilogy. There's not much room to continue it on in a larger arc. I think a reboot at this point is necessary. And it may be after that, as well. But again, I have to divert to James Bond, in this case to affirm what you're saying. I think we see some of a larger arc sort of thing within that very series. And yet only just recently the series was essentially rebooted with Casino Royale, and thank God for that. After the Pierce Brosnan series, people needed something new. And there was room for it, as there always will be. Doctor Who may also be a good example: new showrunners, new characters, new styles, but all timeless within its own massive arc. However, Nolan's Batman and Nolan's villains are, at least in my mind, not extendable. Whether you change up the style or change any number of things, it's going to be confined by what Nolan did. I don't think that works. I think people will continue to see new, vibrant, fresh Batman stories separate from every other Batman story, whether they're an origin story or not (preferably without the origin story).

Honestly, I think it comes down to the fact that (as far as I know) there has never been a successfully executed arc of this sort carried on in film by many different directors with many different styles. I just don't know that it works in film. I don't want to say it's impossible, because that's limiting, but I don't know that it's sensible. I can only speak for myself, and I know that I don't get terribly excited over attempting to be the next step in an arc. It cuts down on the freedoms and breadth of possibilities inherent to Batman films substantially. Comic books are altogether more organic, so I think they're the perfect medium for that; films, however, are extremely concentrated. It's just very difficult to maintain that continuation.

[ArcticFox]

I HAVE IT:

Batman - The Musical!

"Join us on a fun-filled, light-hearted romp through downtown Gotham as our beloved characters entertain us with their whimsical take on their traditional roles!"

Sure to become a classic! Sing along with...

"Christmas with the Butler" - performed by Ewan MacGregor as Bruce Wayne/Batman
"Black cape or yellow?" - performed by Macaulay Culkin as Dick Grayson/Robin

All dances choreographed by Paula Abdul!

Who will ever forget the soulful ballad "Harley or the World?" performed by Jack Black as The Joker?

Don't miss it!

Special cameo appearances by Adam West, Val Kilmer, George Clooney, Christan Bale and Michael Keaton, in an ensemble performance of "Voices of the Past."

Will Batman be able to save Gotham from the villainous machinations of Kiefer Sutherland as The Riddler...

"Riddle me this, Riddle me That, Whatever Happened to That Really Hot Cat?!?!?"

... or Katy Perry as Catwoman, singing "Meow by Moonlight"...

... or Patrick Stewart as Mr. Freeze, performing "Wintertime in Anchorage?"

Coming soon to a theater near you!

[CountKrazy]

I HAVE IT:

Batman - The Musical!

"Join us on a fun-filled, light-hearted romp through downtown Gotham as our beloved characters entertain us with their whimsical take on their traditional roles!"

Sure to become a classic! Sing along with...

"Christmas with the Butler" - performed by Ewan MacGregor as Bruce Wayne/Batman
"Black cape or yellow?" - performed by Macaulay Culkin as Dick Grayson/Robin

All dances choreographed by Paula Abdul!

Who will ever forget the soulful ballad "Harley or the World?" performed by Jack Black as The Joker?

Don't miss it!

Special cameo appearances by Adam West, Val Kilmer, George Clooney, Christan Bale and Michael Keaton, in an ensemble performance of "Voices of the Past."

Will Batman be able to save Gotham from the villainous machinations of Kiefer Sutherland as The Riddler...

"Riddle me this, Riddle me That, Whatever Happened to That Really Hot Cat?!?!?"

... or Katy Perry as Catwoman, singing "Meow by Moonlight"...

... or Patrick Stewart as Mr. Freeze, performing "Wintertime in Anchorage?"

Coming soon to a theater near you!

[epsons]

I'd rather see "Streaming Behind Them Like Pennants."