Ask the Heathen Part 33 1/3

[Bruce_Campbell]

What are your thoughts on the Lego Movie?

I went to see it with my six year old niece. We loved it. Now she's a Lego fanatic just like me.

Accidentally shouting in the wrong direction in Skyrim?

Ohoho, don't tempt me. The last thing I need right now is to rekindle my Skyrim addiction.

Conversations about people you don't know are in the next room?

Those can get you in a lot of trouble, assuming you're being nasty about said people.

Tackling the other question in a new post...

[Bruce_Campbell]

I'm sorry if it comes across that I am trying to start some kind of debate, because I'm not. I'm trying to format the question in a yes or no answer format.

This topic is a little complex for simple yes and no answers. I have a long, complicated history with religion (Christianity, to be more specific). I've also spent years thinking, praying, etc. about this stuff. I don't like being boxed in when being asked about my personal beliefs. I'd rather give honest, thoughtful answers. To do otherwise isn't fair to either of us.

For the purpose of refocusing the question, I would define the details as below:

[...]

If you knew = You fully believe that you have clear evidence that God exists

Okay, with you so far.

In this scenario, you do not have any information that would suggest that God wants to change you, and you don't know why God would want to change you. All you know is that God loves you and cares about you.

I'd ask how I knew that God loves and cares about me, but for now I'll just go with the premise.

In this scenario, you know that God exists and loves you (and all others). There is however, a variety of scenarios in which you do not understand, including but not limited to: the present human slavery industry, families getting beheaded in the middle east, child soldier armies, wars, drug/alcohol addictions, physical disabilities, mental disorders, natural disasters, and a host of other things that are generally socially classified as "bad things". You do not understand why these things are in the world, and you don't know if God is doing anything about it or not, but you cannot escape from this belief that God exists and loves you (and others) despite the bad things also existing. You disagree with God in the sense that you do not see action being taken in the way that you would take action in response to "bad things".

Okay, here's where the premise falls apart. I don't see myself accepting that such a god loves or cares about me, or anyone really. I can't see myself in this scenario. And that's why I can't answer yes or no to your question. It's also one of the reasons I don't believe in the Christian version of god, or any version of a god that claims to be omnipotent, all good, and all knowing. (Although I'm skeptical of pretty much all god claims.)

Any parent who sits by and watches while his or her child is hurt and abused is a monster. Assuming this God is omnipotent (correct me if that's not one of the parameters of the god in your premise), it is not loving behavior to allow your loved ones to be abused when you have the ability to stop it. Heck, any parent who sat by and allowed their child to be abused by another person would be sent to prison (and rightly so). That's the problem of evil, and I've never seen a good explanation for it.

Anyway, that's my answer. I'm a little distracted with arthritis pain and having to take care of my wife, so if I'm leaving something out just let me know. I enjoy talking about this stuff, so ask away if you'd like.

[Chozon1]

(I'm on my phone at a hospital with my wife.)

You guys OK?

[Bruce_Campbell]

(I'm on my phone at a hospital with my wife.)

You guys OK?

We are now, for the most part. She had two trips to the hospital within about three weeks. During that time, I had a bad psoriatic arthritis flare-up. When it rains it pours.

[Darkkodiak]

Okay, here's where the premise falls apart. I don't see myself accepting that such a god loves or cares about me, or anyone really. I can't see myself in this scenario. And that's why I can't answer yes or no to your question. It's also one of the reasons I don't believe in the Christian version of god, or any version of a god that claims to be omnipotent, all good, and all knowing. (Although I'm skeptical of pretty much all god claims.)

Any parent who sits by and watches while his or her child is hurt and abused is a monster. Assuming this God is omnipotent (correct me if that's not one of the parameters of the god in your premise), it is not loving behavior to allow your loved ones to be abused when you have the ability to stop it. Heck, any parent who sat by and allowed their child to be abused by another person would be sent to prison (and rightly so). That's the problem of evil, and I've never seen a good explanation for it.

Well first of all, thank you for taking my question seriously, since you didn't have to... and for putting out your honest opinion without trying to debate me for bringing up the subject. I appreciate that.

After thinking about it, there are some things a person would have to believe in order to reconcile those two things. Using my own beliefs as an example, I will insert a few "givens" that would have to be present. After learning about the character of God through the Bible, I have come to see that:

1. God is sovereign
As the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways and my thoughts than your thoughts. Isaiah 55:9
... I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion. Exodus 33:19

2. God is love
...God is love. 1 John 4:8
Greater love has no one than this: to lay down one’s life for one’s friends. John 15:13
...God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us. Romans 5:8
...God has bound everyone over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all. Romans 11:32

3. God has a plan despite evil
I consider that our present sufferings are not worth comparing with the glory that will be revealed in us. Romans 8:18
...in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who have been called according to his purpose. Romans 8:28
Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall trouble or hardship or persecution... As it is written: “For your sake we face death all day long; we are considered as sheep to be slaughtered.” Romans 8:35-36

I suppose all of these are deeply connected, and would have to be present in order to reconcile the belief of evil in the world with that of a loving God who created the world. To be honest, if I did not believe in God's sovereignty and/or love, I could never accept his plans, and thus would not want to accept such a god due to disagreement. The only reason I can accept that God is love and that he had good plans, is because I know he is sovereign, or else I would assume that my ideas are equal or greater to his. When I see bad things happen to innocent people, I do not naturally agree with the way God handles the situation either. It's just that the more I get to know him... the more I see his plans in action firsthand, and the less I favor "how I would have done it" because I realize that his way was better. I'm a long way from seeing eye-to-eye with him, but I have learned to trust him.

The fact that you could not honestly answer my question revealed the truth behind the matter louder than if you spoke an answer. I think it actually shed light into both viewpoints in a way that has real value. Thanks again!

[Bruce_Campbell]

First off, you're welcome. I'm always up for a friendly discussion. That's one of the reasons I post here. Virtually all of my loved ones (minus some friends I made within the last year) are Christians, so respectful discussion is important to me.

I suppose all of these are deeply connected, and would have to be present in order to reconcile the belief of evil in the world with that of a loving God who created the world. To be honest, if I did not believe in God's sovereignty and/or love, I could never accept his plans, and thus would not want to accept such a god due to disagreement.

Well, I don't disagree with God because I don't believe that Yaweh exists in the first place. I do disagree with Christianity in the sense that I don't think what most Christian doctrine calls loving is very loving at all, but I'd rather not go into that unless asked, because I'm not here to evangelize my atheism.

And of course I don't believe that the Bible is infallible (again, don't want to go into detail here out of respect for my Christian friends), so you'll have to excuse me for not replying to the scriptures you posted.

The fact that you could not honestly answer my question revealed the truth behind the matter louder than if you spoke an answer. I think it actually shed light into both viewpoints in a way that has real value. Thanks again!

I'm going to give you the benefit of a doubt here, and assume you didn't mean to imply that I wasn't honest when I answered you.

EDIT; changed some wording... one of the sentences I wrote above made it sound like I thought Christians weren't generally loving people, which would be absurd.

[HankTheCowdog]

Mac and Cheese? Did you know that their is 1200 calories in 1 box? and 400 in 1 bowl?

[Bruce_Campbell]

Mac and Cheese? Did you know that their is 1200 calories in 1 box? and 400 in 1 bowl?

Yeah, that's a lotta carbs. I'm trying to stay away from junk food. But I still lurvs me some mac n' cheese.

[Emwok]

Trading card games?

[Chozon1]

It may be high in calories, but Mac and Cheese is good for the heart. <3

Best classic Sci-Fi?

[Darkkodiak]

I'm going to give you the benefit of a doubt here, and assume you didn't mean to imply that I wasn't honest when I answered you.

Correct, sorry for the poor wording. I just appreciated you being honest by letting me know you can't answer based on the framework.

[Halo3Hunter113]

Drinking out of the milk carton?

[Bruce_Campbell]

I've never really tried any trading card games.

I still lurv me some mac and cheese. I discovered that the bistro at our local hospital (where I've been spending a lot of time since my wife's been ill) has the best mac and cheese ever.

I haven't watched much classic sci-fi. Does the original Star Wars trilogy count? Or the Twilight Zone, maybe?

I do occasionally drink milk straight from the carton. It's one of the benefits of being a heathen.

[Chozon1]

That's not heathen; that's just gross. Especially if yo have a 'stache, and leave little hairs all over the rim. Ugh.

Someone needs to combine the Playstation and the Xbox and create the ultimate console?

Ninty would have to make games for it, of course.

[Bruce_Campbell]

That's not heathen; that's just gross. Especially if yo have a 'stache, and leave little hairs all over the rim. Ugh.

Someone needs to combine the Playstation and the Xbox and create the ultimate console?

Ninty would have to make games for it, of course.

I've got a full blown beard, and I only drink out of cartons when I'm the only one who's going to drink from said carton. (Strangely enough, I've got a Jesus hairdo going, if Jesus' beard was slightly auburn.)

I'd love to buy just one megasystem, but wouldn't that kind of kill the competition that the three major companies have going these days?