Why Most Christians Miss The Point of God's Admonition Against Using Magic

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Why Most Christians Miss The Point of God's Admonition Against Using Magic

Postby GethN7 » Sat Jun 22, 2019 9:50 pm

https://gethn7.blogspot.com/2019/06/why ... -gods.html


If there is one fallacy many Christians have, albeit it often comes from the most well meaning motives, it's the belief that trying to influence the world using magic and the occult, contrary to the instructions of God, will actually have an effect on this planet or the people on it as regards events that cannot be explained. They agree doing so is immoral, and they are right, but they would be foolish to believe it has an effect either way without God's assent, nothing supernatural occurs without him signing off on it happening.

This is also missing a very basic point God himself made numerous times about why no one but him and those he gave power should ever trifle with the supernatural, and it wasn't so much he feared we'd do damage in a supernatural way if we tried, but more that we'd be fools to do so because we really have no power outside what he gives us.

He proved this several times in Scripture, showing Man's various attempts to substitute his power for that of others was totally toothless.

1. The ten plagues of Egypt as described in Exodus was God's mockery of the Egyptian Gods. Each plague was a deliberate slap to the faces of the gods said to have power over the sun, the water, livestock, insects, and all the other beings and elements said plagues turned against the Egyptians. God proved, successfully, that the Egyptians followed a sham faith in something that had no power to stop him in any way whatsoever.

2. Later, the Philistines captured God's own Ark of the Covenant and put it in front of their sea god Dagon as a tribute to it's capture. God proved himself mightier than Dagon multiple times, forcing the statue of Dagon to not only bow before his Ark; he even ripped off the head and hands off Dagon's statue after a few times of the Philistines not getting the point to hammer in the obvious point:

Dagon had no power, only God did.


Fun fact, Dagon was the FATHER of Baal in Canaanite tradition, which makes God's next trumping of false gods all the more hilarious.


3. When the showdown on Mount Carmel happened, God really set out to prove no power outside his own meant anything.Baal was allegedly a god over the weather, but Baal had failed to do ANYTHING to prevent a years long drought, simply because God said he'd withhold the rains until everyone acknowledged who truly held any power.

When the priests of Baal faced off against Elijah to prove whose God was superior, God set out to handicap himself as much as possible to just prove how meaningless worshiping Baal was.

God gave them several hours lead time on him doing anything. He had his own altar soaked with water several times over just to make the act of burning anything on said altar harder, and the contest was pretty lopsided to begin with, given the absurdly low bar set for both God and Baal.

All one of them had to do was light the slightest spark on their sacrifice without any human intervention first, and they'd win by default.

Baal was given every advantage, and the fools who thought he had power did everything including maiming themselves in a vain attempt to get their meaningless deity to light the slightest spark on their altar.

Once they finally gave up, all Elijah did was ask God to prove himself.

And God did, overwhelmingly. Despite the altar being soaked, EVERYTHING, from the water to meat on it to the stones of the altar itself, even all the excess water that had pooled in a trench around the altar, it was burned to the point NONE of it was left.


The point to all these incidents was God making a simple message clear: We humans have no power to affect this world supernaturally, except for what God alone allows and what he does on His own.

Any attempt by us to cast spells, make idols, summon demons, or affect this world in any supernatural way will actually do nothing except earn us His rightly earned contempt.


Granted, there were times when supernatural forces other than God were confirmably in existence, such as the demon possessed man who is oft referred to as Legion. Even the demons (who were the fallen angels cast out of heaven due to their collusion with the traitor Lucifer) bowed before God's power when Jesus told them to leave the man they had afflicted, and they begged to be sent into a herd of pigs instead of an even worse judgment at God's hands, and Jesus allowed it for one reason.

Sure, Jesus could have sent them straight to the bottomless pit if he wanted to, but the fact the demons begged Jesus to punish them in any other way means even they in their rebellion acknowledged even the mildest command from God had more power than they all possessed combined, and the slightest command from God would free Men from their influence.

Another time supernatural powers seemed to work was when King Saul was so desperate for God (who had turned his back on Saul for disobedience) to tell him something he went to a witch to summon the spirit of the prophet Samuel, all so Saul could get something from world beyond the temporal to go on since God was purposely putting Saul on Ignore for disobedience.

God chose to allow Saul to see what he was hoping for just so he could grind the spiritual glass in Saul, telling Saul his own death outside of God's grace was coming soon and there was nothing that could be done to avert it because Saul's faith in God's power had sunk so low he had turned to mediums and spiritualists (whom Saul had once hunted down on God's behalf) because his faith in God's power and that alone had become so weak.

Yet again, God proved the folly of we pathetic mortals in believing we have any control over the supernatural world. He even mentioned in the Books of the Law the only humans who would ever be authorized to do so would receive his explicit approval, and he even provided a two tiered test to weed out false prophets in his name:

1. First, what they predicted or whatever power they displayed had to come to pass. If it didn't, they were a powerless liar.

2. If the first happened, then on whose behalf the sign or supernatural work was performed had to be God. If done in the name of anyone else, they were not doing so with God's sanction or power and thus were false prophets.


Now, speaking merely for myself for a moment, I do not believe, based on all prior biblical precedent, any attempt by us humans to cast spells, summon demons, channel the dead, or any other meddling with the supernatural God said we shouldn't contemplate is real, at least nothing we do by ourselves has any real power, we have none because God gave us none by default.

If something supernatural does happen, it's for the same reasons Saul got to see what he was hoping to see, so God could grind in the glass over the disobedience of those who defied his instructions NOT to meddle in the supernatural, and any actual supernatural consequences of doing so is not because we humans have any power, because we do not, but because God chose to allow us to suffer for our defiance.

The more important reason God tells us not to meddle in the supernatural is far simpler than us messing with something we do actual damage with (and we can't), but it's more simple point, and I'll let God Himself explain why via Leviticus 19:31


""'Do not turn to mediums or seek out spiritists, for you will be defiled by them. I am the LORD your God."


Note how God never says they are doing anything other causing others to be defiled? God never says what they are doing is effective, because it isn't, they are charlatans and liars pretending at God's own power.

What they are doing, however, is encouraging others to turn away from God by trusting in supernatural power attributed to a source outside of God's, who is the only one that can actually do anything. The pretenders can't do what God can do, but you would be foolish to be led astray by believing otherwise.

As for you following the example of said pretenders, you are not affecting the world beyond the natural one little bit. God is clear it is the height of arrogance to believe we humans without God's own sanction can do more than what he allows our mortal shells, anything beyond that is only allowed on his say so.

However, attempting to pretend otherwise accomplishes nothing save to defy God and earn his contempt, to which our fate is that of Saul, to die outside of God's grace because we chose to believe in something other than him.

So all Christians should be afraid to consider making the attempt even more than the actual act, because even attempting to influence this world beyond the natural is more than enough to earn us God's contempt, and that alone is enough of a judgment, we need not fear we could actually do anything God does not allow, but it's still wise to not even make the attempt since God said not to in the first place.

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Re: Why Most Christians Miss The Point of God's Admonition Against Using Magic

Postby IBJamon » Sun Jun 23, 2019 1:53 am

I agree with your admonitions, and your intent. We should not be messing with the occult, demons, or anything else, for many of the reasons listed.

However, I do not agree that in every case demons do not grant a form of power, or exercise it themselves, to humans when they do their evil works.

When I was a teen and into the occult, I did experience some things that suggests that people (or demons, who were deceiving said people) can have spiritual power. It pales in comparison to what God gives His children, but it does exist. I believe that was demonic in nature, but I didn't know it yet.

At church several years back, we had missionaries who brought back Christians from parts of the third world who used to be involved in various forms of evil spiritual contact. It may have been voodoo, or shamanic, but I don't remember for sure. But what I do know, is he made it very clear that demons do have a form of power. People in third-world areas are literally demonized on a regular basis. In our Western, modern society, it is very easy for us to believe that demonic powers do not exist. I can assure you, that those who live in more primitive societies know this is not the case - not because they are primitive, but because they experience it.

Jesus would not have had to cast out demons if they did not have any power over people. Of course God is more powerful, but demons do have power over humans.

Supernatural things can and do happen. God puts strict limits on what demons can do, but they do have at least some agency, and when foolish humans give them an opportunity, they do act. They hate us more than anything, so deceiving humans into thinking they have some form of power most certainly happens. They love it even more when said human has their inevitable downfall, in part because they trusted in what they thought they had.

Our eternal enemies hate human beings with all of their, well, being. They know as well as we do that power corrupts, and that even the illusion of said power can turn a man to evil. The Apostle Paul in Acts 16 encountered a fortune teller woman who accurately told the truth not only about them, but apparently the future to others in the past. Once Paul cast that demon out of her, she could no longer tell accurate fortunes - and she was restored to her health and sanity.

God tells us to avoid evil dark powers not just because He wants better for us, but because they do exist. Our enemy is like a roaring lion looking for whom he may devour, and will use whatever means necessary to accomplish said devouring. For most of us, supernatural means are not needed. But for some, he may choose to use said weapons. Even in Revelation the Beast and False Prophet are granted evil powers, that, if it were possible, could deceive even the very Elect. Of course, it isn't possible.

Thanks to our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ.

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Re: Why Most Christians Miss The Point of God's Admonition Against Using Magic

Postby GethN7 » Sun Jun 23, 2019 2:06 am

I agree with your admonitions, and your intent. We should not be messing with the occult, demons, or anything else, for many of the reasons listed.

However, I do not agree that in every case demons do not grant a form of power, or exercise it themselves, to humans when they do their evil works.

When I was a teen and into the occult, I did experience some things that suggests that people (or demons, who were deceiving said people) can have spiritual power. It pales in comparison to what God gives His children, but it does exist. I believe that was demonic in nature, but I didn't know it yet.

At church several years back, we had missionaries who brought back Christians from parts of the third world who used to be involved in various forms of evil spiritual contact. It may have been voodoo, or shamanic, but I don't remember for sure. But what I do know, is he made it very clear that demons do have a form of power. People in third-world areas are literally demonized on a regular basis. In our Western, modern society, it is very easy for us to believe that demonic powers do not exist. I can assure you, that those who live in more primitive societies know this is not the case - not because they are primitive, but because they experience it.

Jesus would not have had to cast out demons if they did not have any power over people. Of course God is more powerful, but demons do have power over humans.

Supernatural things can and do happen. God puts strict limits on what demons can do, but they do have at least some agency, and when foolish humans give them an opportunity, they do act. They hate us more than anything, so deceiving humans into thinking they have some form of power most certainly happens. They love it even more when said human has their inevitable downfall, in part because they trusted in what they thought they had.

Our eternal enemies hate human beings with all of their, well, being. They know as well as we do that power corrupts, and that even the illusion of said power can turn a man to evil. The Apostle Paul in Acts 16 encountered a fortune teller woman who accurately told the truth not only about them, but apparently the future to others in the past. Once Paul cast that demon out of her, she could no longer tell accurate fortunes - and she was restored to her health and sanity.

God tells us to avoid evil dark powers not just because He wants better for us, but because they do exist. Our enemy is like a roaring lion looking for whom he may devour, and will use whatever means necessary to accomplish said devouring. For most of us, supernatural means are not needed. But for some, he may choose to use said weapons. Even in Revelation the Beast and False Prophet are granted evil powers, that, if it were possible, could deceive even the very Elect. Of course, it isn't possible.

Thanks to our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ.
This is a good riposte, and I concur.

We humans don't have power, but like the demon possessed man whose demonic possession was driven into a herd of swine, those who fall prey to belief in things other than God will be an easy mark for said beings, because if we don't believe in God, those that rebelled against God and seek to destroy us will take advantage of that, and while we don't have power, they will certainly enjoy stringing us along with the illusion we do, right into eternal damnation along with them.

And if we refuse to forsake such temptations and turn back towards God, God will do for us like he did Saul, and we will be allowed to pave the road to our own infernal reward with our own defiance against Him since we chose to not turn away from what God told us to spurn.

Again, God made it clear we were created from dust and to the dust we will return, and no mortal has ever received power beyond what is capable of mortal hands except by his Will or us being led astray into our own demise by the siren call of evil because we refuse to listen to Him, but even when God gives us power beyond that of our earthly shells, it is not for our glory, but His, for we are powerless to do as God does without Him.

Moses chose to claim the credit for God's power as his own, and his arrogance led to his death without ever being allowed to set foot into the Promised Land.

As for those who choose to fall prey to power not of God's Will, not only are they enjoying a pathetic smoke and mirrors parody of what God can do at best, the reward for buying into it is eternal separation from God because we chose to buy into a cheap parlor tricks illusion of power, not serving one who has real power beyond the realm of this world.


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