Should this forum stay or go?

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Keep Spiritual Matters?

Yes
62
73%
No
6
7%
Remove the Debates forum only
17
20%
 
Total votes: 85

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LAVA89
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Re: Should this forum stay or go?

Post by LAVA89 »

brandon1984 wrote:Some questions are designed to be more than questions.
I ask questions to genuinely learn from people.

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Re: Should this forum stay or go?

Post by brandon1984 »

That's a good reason to ask questions. I think i'll leave it at that, my friend.

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Re: Should this forum stay or go?

Post by selderane »

Keep Spiritual Matters but make it invite only/hidden/whatever if rabble-rousers can't respect boundaries.

Actually, now that I typed it, nix that. It the boundary can't be respected offenders ought to be warned then banned. This is a Christian site first and foremost. Our faith shouldn't be hidden away, especially from people with a genuine interest in listening or learning. That only serves darkness.

The people we want to participate, but disagree with what may be talked about, will respect the line. We want them around. Those who cannot we don't want around anyway. Better to let them show themselves for who they are and be dealt with.
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Re: Should this forum stay or go?

Post by Bruce_Campbell »

Blargh, I had a long response typed out and it disappeared. So I'll go with the tl;dr version:

- Yes, keep both forums, but maybe move Debates out of Spiritual Matters

- Keep Spiritual Matters for Christians who want to discuss spiritual stuff without being picked apart by us heathens. If a topic gets heated or moves into "debate" territory, dump it into debates.

- If you're worried about younger folks etc. reading debates, maybe limit access somehow. Perhaps age restrictions, or password protecting it, or having access permission based or something. So that people who want to debate can do so, and those who want to stay out won't bother.

- I can't speak for the other atheist/non-believers on here, but I've really enjoyed the debates forum. I've had my beliefs challenged many times there, and it's good mental excercise. I also have a lot of respect for the other posters there, even the ones I don't agree with.

- At the end of the day, I'd still love to have a beer (or soda/coffee/whatever) with 99 percent of the people who post in Debates. You are my friends, and these debates have helped me learn to get along with folks who I don't agree with.

And since somebody asked the purpose of us atheists asking questions... well, I can only speak for myself, but the main reason is because if there's something that I'm way off on, I'd really like to know.
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Re: Should this forum stay or go?

Post by Sstavix »

Definitely keep Spiritual Matters. I think it's a healthy area for people to discuss things that their church or church leaders have done, scriptures that need clarification, or just Christianity in general.

But I agree that the Debates subforum is a touchy area. I generally stay out of it mostly because I think I have little to contribute (often because someone else had already made my points, so why rehash old ideas?), but also because they can get a bit heated.

In another gaming forum I used to visit quite often there was a separate group called the "debate team" that had access to a hidden politics and religion forum. Access to this area was allowed only with permission, and it did seem to go quite well. I don't see why something similar can't be done here. That way for those who don't want to get involved in debates they don't have to even see the option.

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Re: Should this forum stay or go?

Post by LAVA89 »

Sstavix wrote:In another gaming forum I used to visit quite often there was a separate group called the "debate team" that had access to a hidden politics and religion forum. Access to this area was allowed only with permission, and it did seem to go quite well. I don't see why something similar can't be done here. That way for those who don't want to get involved in debates they don't have to even see the option.
I really like this idea!

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Re: Should this forum stay or go?

Post by Skogkatt »

Guys I will read more posts under this thread later but I'd like to add that as believers we should be able to discern the spirit that someone is talking through...a well intention query can lead to a good result but a lot of times it's ppl who want to cause trouble and upset others as well as there those who are literally doing their job (hired by you know whom) doing the latter.
I really liked the fact that a community like this exists and the problem (I agree) is with the debating. Let us not forget that the BIble says that we do not try to -convince- ppl through "high speech" that's freshly 100% but by the power of the Holy Spirit....our testimony..our lives, our love, (yes) but our wisdom also (not carnal but of the Spirit). A couple of inspired words can be more than enough for a well intentioned fellow.
Darkness cannot drive out darkness. Only light can do that.
Hate cannot drive out hate. Only love can do that.

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Re: Should this forum stay or go?

Post by Chozon1 »

It has been my experience that people will fight and quibble no matter what you do, and placing any but the most gentle restrictions on that will net a "YOU'RE SAILING ON THE CENSORSHIP" label scarily fast.

So in my mind, keep them both. At present, the "debates" and various arguments are contained in one forum for any who wish to participate, and the rest of us can ignore them without to much effort.
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Re: Should this forum stay or go?

Post by Sstavix »

LAVA89 wrote:
Sstavix wrote:In another gaming forum I used to visit quite often there was a separate group called the "debate team" that had access to a hidden politics and religion forum. Access to this area was allowed only with permission, and it did seem to go quite well. I don't see why something similar can't be done here. That way for those who don't want to get involved in debates they don't have to even see the option.
I really like this idea!
I can't take the credit for it, though - both ArchAngel and Nate DaZombie suggested it in this thread before I did. In my experience, though, it works well.

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Re: Should this forum stay or go?

Post by LAVA89 »

Sstavix wrote:
I can't take the credit for it, though - both ArchAngel and Nate DaZombie suggested it in this thread before I did. In my experience, though, it works well.
Yeah, you're right, thanks. I overlooked that. Sorry guys! haha

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Re: Should this forum stay or go?

Post by cappyys »

I vote yes, because as the one reader said that those who really want to talk or debate will only go to a different area for the discussion. The ones that really need those conversations are usually much more inclined to debate...not sure why, but they may need the reassurance of conversation to maintain whatever thoughts they have about their faith.

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Re: Should this forum stay or go?

Post by delve »

cappyys wrote:I vote yes, because as the one reader said that those who really want to talk or debate will only go to a different area for the discussion. The ones that really need those conversations are usually much more inclined to debate...not sure why, but they may need the reassurance of conversation to maintain whatever thoughts they have about their faith.
To speak for myself I enjoy a thoughtful discussion.
The Bible is to spirit as debate is to intellect.

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Re: Should this forum stay or go?

Post by DeadManReedeemed »

Keep the Spiritual Matters forum............

If opinions clash, just lock it down or delete the entire post entirely with a notification. If they want to keep posting on there, they either keep it under control or stop posting.
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Re: Should this forum stay or go?

Post by ArcticFox »

The idea of moving threads that become debates into the Debate section is a really good one. I'd endorse that wholeheartedly.

That said, there's still a problem with people getting nasty, even within the Debates section and that needs to be addressed. The moderation in there has been heavier of late and that's good, but that's only half the equation. When a thread gets locked it silences the flame war but there are still plenty of people here who keep a level head and it silences them, too. The other half is to remind people that getting nasty in a debate is counterproductive. I've heard a lot of people (not necessarily on this forum) defend rude comments as "just being blunt" which is nothing but a thinly veiled excuse for being a jerk.

I get fired up in a debate just like everybody else, and Lord knows I've had my share of swizzling matches, but I'd like to think I've gotten better about that. One of the things that helped was when I realized my frustration and bitterness with people I'd argued with was interfering with my real life relationships, and that isn't okay. I don't want to see other people fall into that same situation on a forum that's supposed to be uplifting and spiritual.
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Re: Should this forum stay or go?

Post by scottisblack »

When tearing down another person's beliefs (through debate) one has to be careful, because it can create a serious void in that person's life.

This is my observation:

If we can agree that there is one ultimate truth in the world, we can also agree that everyone is going to approach that truth a different way. We all hold little pieces of the puzzle within us. If someone holds a belief that you categorically 100% know to be wrong, it doesn't necessarily put the responsibilty on you to prove them wrong. If we tear down someones house, we better be willing to rebuild a better house for them, or they will be filled with bitterness. And just because we are comfortable in our own house doesn't mean others will share that feeling.

Our minds are filled with lies and wrong opinions, and that's just the nature of being a human in the world. We are literally addicted to the darkness within us, so we must approach it's removal with a tremendous amount of care.

Like the parable of the tares in the bible. Instead of uprooting the tares (untruth) and risking damaging the wheat (truth), they wait til the harvest. Extra care was taken in the removal of the darkness from the light, as to not damage what was good. While I realize this parable is probably referring to 'final judgement', I believe in the duality of scripture and i think the parable applies in this more general sense too.

We should not avoid discussing spiritual matters because we are afraid of 'hurting people's feelings' but we should all be able to look deep into ourselves and search our own motives when we try so hard to convince one another of certain things. Why are we doing it? Do we like the power and influence we can exhibit over others or do we see it as a great benefit to them? There's a fine line there, I think.

I'm not going to vote because I haven't been involved in the debates enough to have a factual opinion, but I have seldom ever seen a forum benefit much from the more heated style of debates.

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