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As Christians, do we "accept" homosexuals?

Posted: Thu Sep 25, 2014 1:39 am
by RedPlums
Precisely as the subject says, as children of God, are we to "accept" homosexuals and their lifestyle?

Recently on FB a friend of mine posted a picture saying, "If someone's marriage is against your religion, then you cannot eat this cookie because I am on a diet." My friend is a Christian, I know so, I know by her acts and words that she has put her faith in Jesus. However she was calling for equality for homosexuals, that we should consider them equals and just accept them and live with them in peace.

Now, I'd like to read your opinions on this. After a few have given their opinions, I'll give mine.

Thank you. :D

Re: As Christians, do we "accept" homosexuals?

Posted: Thu Sep 25, 2014 4:46 am
by Sstavix
As has often been paraphrased from the Bible (but it doesn't actually appear in there verbatim), "hate the sin, love the sinner." Everyone is your brother or sister, spiritually speaking, so you should love them equally.

But that doesn't mean you should accept or condone their actions. Also keep in mind that other things that are prohibited from a Biblical standpoint include stealing, lying, murder, taking the Lord's name in vain, gambling and adultery (including sex outside of marriage). So should we really try to put things on a sliding scale of acceptable vs. unacceptable behavior? It's OK to accept it when someone lies to us, but if they're gay then you can no longer be friends with them? And if you put people on the "people who do un-Godly things so don't be friends with them" list, it may not be too long before you have to add your name to that list, too.

Everyone falls short of perfection, regardless of how hard we try. But that's the reason why we need to support each other, and to be there when one of our brothers or sisters stumbles and falls. Sometimes they won't want your help, or they'll even deny that they've fallen, or hurt themselves. As long as you're there to help, though, your efforts will be rewarded and appreciated - maybe not in this lifetime, but eventually.

Ultimately, remember this - you are not the final judge. I know, this is a hard one to remember! It's very easy to judge people by their actions - I find myself doing this, too. Especially when I read the news and stories about some of the slimeballs in this world. But Heavenly Father is the final judge and arbitrator - not you, and certainly not me. So we need to try and refrain from determining the worth of a person simply because their choices differ from our own.

I know this isn't a straightforward "yes" or "no" answer to your question, but it's a complicated issue. Having a couple of lesbian aunts in my family (who have been together for almost as long as I've been alive - and I'm 40!), as well as being friends with someone who died of AIDS a long time ago, (and myself being a fan of various homosexual media figures, including Tim Gunn, Nathan Lane and Freddie Mercury) it isn't so cut-and-dry for me. So I hope my own thoughts help put some perspective on the issue. :)

Re: As Christians, do we "accept" homosexuals?

Posted: Thu Sep 25, 2014 2:11 pm
by ccgr
pretty much what he said

Re: As Christians, do we "accept" homosexuals?

Posted: Thu Sep 25, 2014 2:39 pm
by JOJ650s
Ah, something I have been looking into lately.

1 Corinthians 5 actually pretty much talks about this.
1Co 5:1
I can hardly believe the report about the sexual immorality going on among you—something that even pagans don’t do. I am told that a man in your church is living in sin with his stepmother.

1Co 5:2
You are so proud of yourselves, but you should be mourning in sorrow and shame. And you should remove this man from your fellowship.

1Co 5:3
Even though I am not with you in person, I am with you in the Spirit. And as though I were there, I have already passed judgment on this man

1Co 5:4
in the name of the Lord Jesus. You must call a meeting of the church. I will be present with you in spirit, and so will the power of our Lord Jesus.

1Co 5:5
Then you must throw this man out and hand him over to Satan so that his sinful nature will be destroyed and he himself will be saved on the day the Lord returns.

1Co 5:6
Your boasting about this is terrible. Don’t you realize that this sin is like a little yeast that spreads through the whole batch of dough?

1Co 5:7
Get rid of the old “yeast” by removing this wicked person from among you. Then you will be like a fresh batch of dough made without yeast, which is what you really are. Christ, our Passover Lamb, has been sacrificed for us.

1Co 5:8
So let us celebrate the festival, not with the old bread of wickedness and evil, but with the new bread of sincerity and truth.

1Co 5:9
When I wrote to you before, I told you not to associate with people who indulge in sexual sin.

1Co 5:10
But I wasn’t talking about unbelievers who indulge in sexual sin, or are greedy, or cheat people, or worship idols. You would have to leave this world to avoid people like that.

1Co 5:11
I meant that you are not to associate with anyone who claims to be a believer yet indulges in sexual sin, or is greedy, or worships idols, or is abusive, or is a drunkard, or cheats people. Don’t even eat with such people.

1Co 5:12
It isn’t my responsibility to judge outsiders, but it certainly is your responsibility to judge those inside the church who are sinning.

1Co 5:13
God will judge those on the outside; but as the Scriptures say, “You must remove the evil person from among you.”
I find these verses very important.

The cookie thing sounds more like a Romans 14 thing,
as eating a cookie while someone is on a diet is not a sin,
but it is polite to not eat a cookie in front of someone who is on a diet.

Re: As Christians, do we "accept" homosexuals?

Posted: Thu Sep 25, 2014 3:08 pm
by ArcticFox
I have struggled with that question myself.

A few weeks ago, I was talking with one of the missionaries when they came to visit my home, and he said something very interesting and profound (to me). He reminded me that Heavenly Father gives us all freewill. Some use it in a way that is consistent with the Gospel, some don't. It isn't for us to pass judgement, but only to love and try to set a good example.

A wise man, that 20 year old.

Re: As Christians, do we "accept" homosexuals?

Posted: Thu Sep 25, 2014 9:26 pm
by RedPlums
All three very good opinions, I agree with them on most if not all points.

Now, here's my 2 cents.

God has given us free will, to choose to love Him or not. Some people choose not to, and that is their decision, I cannot make them change.
My beef, is that some Christians choose to accept the homosexuals and their lifestyle, they say it's fine, let them be who they want to be, everyone deserves equality, ETC. The issue there is that it becomes friendliness with the world,
"Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God." James 4:4
It becomes, just letting it slide without any big deal or conviction. How can we, as the salt and light of the earth, tolerate sin? How can we say it's okay? That they deserve to be left alone? We are God's children, we are meant to spread His Word, to help other know and follow our Creator. Such sin and apathy ought to light a fire in our souls to spread the gospel and share the good news!
Now, please, do not misunderstand me, I still know and believe that we are to love everyone and pray for our enemies, as God commands. We do not have to like them, be we have to love them, to show God's love to them. However, we do not love the lifestyle, we love the soul, not the decisions or the attitude or the way of life. We are to help them come to a better way of life, to make Godly decisions, to have a Christ-like attitude, simultaneously maintaining and strengthening ours.
Those are my thoughts, I hope that I have not offended anyone, if so, I apologize.

Thank you. :D

Re: As Christians, do we "accept" homosexuals?

Posted: Thu Sep 25, 2014 11:02 pm
by Bruce_Campbell
I'm not going to argue my own opinion because it's kind of irrelevant as I'm not a believer (I don't believe homosexuality is a sin, heck, I don't believe in sin), but I like what this Christian has to say:

Re: As Christians, do we "accept" homosexuals?

Posted: Sun Nov 30, 2014 1:55 am
by Expat_PM
Good video Bruce Campbell,
This thread illustrates how wise this group is. I really can't refute anything said here and may not be able to add much either... But I do want to say a couple things on the topic.

I have a friend I grew up with who says that God made him gay. Yet, God says that homosexuality (actually any sexual sin) is the worst kind of sin of all. I know, I know. We've all heard so much about how sin is sin and even the white lie is just as much an abomination to God's holiness ans being a serial killer and all that stuff. But Paul teaches that sexual sin is so bad because the sin actually takes place right in our own bodies.

Of course, Paul also told the Corinthians, "Don’t fool yourselves! No one who is immoral or worships idols or is unfaithful in marriage or is a pervert or behaves like a homosexual will share in God’s kingdom. Neither will any thief or greedy person or drunkard or anyone who curses and cheats others."
He then goes on to add, "Some of you used to be like that. But now the name of our Lord Jesus Christ and the power of God’s Spirit have washed you and made you holy and acceptable to God."

I love that because it gives me hope that even the terrible junk I've done and the horrible things I've excused in my own life have all been wash away. that's why Paul told the Corinthians (BTW, I love the Corinthian Church, they were so real and authentic and are such an encouragement to me) , "Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. The old has passed away; behold, the new has come."

I want to love everyone because I want everyone to love me.
Does that mean I just wink at their sinful lifestyle and excuse it? No. I would not do so for a thief or a liar either. But it does mean that I tell them the truth - in LOVE. Give them Jesus. An old preacher told me years ago, "I just catch the fish, it's God's job to clean em."

Re: As Christians, do we "accept" homosexuals?

Posted: Mon Dec 01, 2014 6:51 pm
by jvogel0321
First, I want to say I have had and do have homosexual friends. I have never "preached" to them about the condemnation of God on homosexual behavior, but I do share with them the gospel of Christ Jesus and I show his love for them through me. God loves them, Jesus loves them, but that doesn't mean he accepts their behavior or that we should "accept" their behavior or condone their behavior. I had one friend ask me, if I was a Christian why did I "hang around with people like [him]", and why don't I do like so many other have done and tell him how evil he is and how he's going to hell (out of love for him, of course). I just ask myself... what would Jesus do? Or... What DID Jesus do? Did he hang around the righteous and abhor the sinners? Did he only show his love for those who were pure and good? No, Jesus did not come to save the righteous and the pure, he came to save the sinners, like you and I. I will tell anyone who asks, yes I think homosexually it definitely not pleasing to God but I will not shun them or turn my back on them, I'll continue to pray for them and show them how much God loves them. If God will turn them from their sin, then I will rejoice. I also want to say I feel this way for all men, as long as they are not belittling or cursing God or Christ, but have an open heart and mind, I will show them His love through my actions and words and Pray for them and keep on loving them. yes, even the muderers, the rapists, the pedophiles and others who society shuns and condemns, I will show love, compassion, and mercy and God has shown love and compassion and mercy to me. Can they change? No, I don't think they can change themselve... but with GOD ALL THINGS ARE POSSIBLE> so yes, God can change the heart of anyone who truly wishes to know Him and walk with Him.

Just my 2 cents

God Bless You All

Re: As Christians, do we "accept" homosexuals?

Posted: Tue Dec 09, 2014 10:40 pm
by TSTC2011
As a christian and a lifelong conservative I do not agree with it however, It is not my place to judge. My role as a christian is to live life as Christ would and show others they way to salvation. Jesus himself ate with the sinners and the tax-collectors we are not to judge but show others the way they should live which is through christ

Re: As Christians, do we "accept" homosexuals?

Posted: Thu Dec 11, 2014 10:00 am
by selderane
Going at any non-Believer from the "It's a sin!" line of reasoning is doomed to fail. They're not a believer and therefore will largely reject your line of moral reasoning. Non-believers we should reach out to with love, compassion, and patience. Expecting them to repent before they accept Yeshua is the definition of the cart before the horse.

Once they take Him in then they're in a position to work on the sin in their lives and you're in the position to challenge them Spiritually on habitual sin. Please note I say habitual sin. That means sin that it appears they're either unwilling or unable to address. We need to find out which. The latter we can help with as brothers and sisters in Yeshua. The former should be cut out once it's clear there's no desire to redress the problem.

As for the notion "I was born this way," that's a cop out pure and simple and ought to be responded to with, "And?" We are all born into sin but Yahweh expects us to turn from it. I may not have the desire to have relations with other men, but I do have a desire to sin. That is the point and that is what the conversation should be turned toward.

We're not addressing homosexuality, but sin. Show me a man born gay and I'll show you a man born a sinner. There is no difference and one's struggle is not harder than another's simply because of the nature of the sin. Would that homosexuality be the only sin to suffer from I should gladly ask for it!

So, in recap:

1. Understand that our struggle is against sin, whatever the form it may take.
2. Only Yeshua can purge sin from a man's heart, so our focus should be on preaching Him.
3. Once a person has accepted Yeshua can the discussion on sin truly begin.

Re: As Christians, do we "accept" homosexuals?

Posted: Thu Dec 11, 2014 4:19 pm
by RedPlums
One thing I often find misunderstood in my statements about homosexuality is that people think I am just gay-bashing and hating on all homosexuals with a burning passion.

People have got to understand that we do not hate them. We love them with the love of the Lord Jesus, we love them with patience, kindness, endurance and faith. HOWEVER! We do not just sit around and say nothing to them about their spiritual lives. We do present the gospel to them, we do show them the error of their ways as said by the Lord, we do show them the love of God and the sacrifice of the Lord Jesus for them. But we do it in a way so as not to offend them or force it upon them. You cannot force someone into heaven, they have to make that choice on their own. We present the gospel to them and preach our God's enduring grace and mercy on those who will believe in His Son.

Thank you.

Re: As Christians, do we "accept" homosexuals?

Posted: Thu Dec 11, 2014 4:27 pm
by ArcticFox
I agree with everything you guys are saying.

There's an element here that people need to understand, though. For a large part of the homosexual community, you could be forgiven for thinking their sexual preference is the only characteristic that matters about them. Think about celebrities after they come out. Before they come out, they're known for the movies they were in or the songs they sang. For example, George Takei, known for his roles in Star Trek and Heroes. After he came out... it's as if he's become a caricature of himself. It's all people talk about anymore (outside of Star Trek circles.) He talks about it a lot, he uses it in commercial appearances ("Oh My!").

So for a great many homosexuals, to reject heir behavior is to reject them. Of course that isn't how we mean it, but to them, there's no difference. I once had a heated debate with a gay man who insisted that I couldn't possibly have gay friends or a good relationship with gay family members unless I embraced and encouraged their homosexuality. This is absurd of course, but he was absolutely unshakable on that point, and that's sad.

So don't be surprised when the "hate the sin, love the sinner" approach is met with hostility, because a lot of people just can't tell the difference.

Re: As Christians, do we "accept" homosexuals?

Posted: Thu Dec 11, 2014 6:07 pm
by ChickenSoup
Well, like it or not, sexuality is a hugr part of who we are. Reversing the situation, if I had a church telling me that I was sinning because loving a woman was an abomination against God, that I couldn't serve in positions of authority within the church because of it, and were looked down upon for it, I'd feel as though my whole self was rejected by that group because of my sexuality. It's a silly alternate scenario, but I get where they come from. Most gay men and women I've met don't expect you to understand and rejoice in everything they do, but taking one of the most fundamental aspects of their being--sexuality--and telling them that the most natural feeling of love (to the point that the opposite gender is as unappealing as the same gender is to us) is wrong and sinful in the eyes of a God they may or may not believe in... Yeah, I'd be annoyed too.

And really, what do they have to look forward to? A life of celibacy? Because those pray the gay away camps don't work. It's a lonely life. Homosexuality is the only sin (that I can think of off the top of my head) where Christians are willing to admit theyre basically screwed spiritually because of the way they were born. I mean, at least paraplegics get to fall in love and get married.

Re: As Christians, do we "accept" homosexuals?

Posted: Thu Dec 11, 2014 8:03 pm
by ArcticFox
Well I can't speak for anyone else, but my sexuality isn't my defining characteristic. The fact that I like women is a big part of who I am, but I'm not a paper cutout and there's more to me than who I want to have sex with.

The irony is that while the LGBT community accuses people like us of treating them like they're paper cutouts, it's they themselves who cast themselves in that way. A gay friend of mine said that and that it's one of the reasons he is alienated from the rest of the gay community... because he sees the hypocrisy and refuses to pay lip service to it.

I've heard the exact same thing from an other gay man I used to work with, and from a very old and close friend of mine who is attracted to men but he remains celibate because his faith in Jesus Christ and God's will is more important to him than getting laid.